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View Full Version : SDSU loses by 26 and UNO wins by 25..



Mavericks#1
12-28-2004, 11:03 PM
UNO 12-1 ranked #10 and SDSU 2-9 and have lost two consecutive games to D2 schools by a combined 35 points at home. Any Questions ?

Mavs#1


P.S I noticed that only 1,400 showed up for the game. Are people jumping off the bandwagon? I am sure that a 2-9 record had nothing to do with it and I am sure that the people who are not coming are in for the long haul. And save the students are on break excuse because Creighton had over 14,000 at their game tonite.

OK_Jackrabbit
12-29-2004, 04:10 AM
And save the students are on break excuse because Creighton had over 14,000 at their game tonite.
Population of the Omaha metropolitan area: 742,588
Population of Brookings "metropolitan area" (Brookings County): 28,265
(Source: U.S. Census estimates, 2003)

I wonder if comparing semester break attendance for Creighton and SDSU is really comparing apples and oranges, Mavs#1. It seems like maybe there are more potential attendees in Omaha than in Brookings. I'm not a mathematician, so maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps it does make a difference when students are on a break, attendance-wise, moreso in Brookings than in Omaha.

I can't argue with the disappointing performance on the court, however. We deserve to get smacked around on the smack board some for that pathetic effort.

SDSUFAN
12-29-2004, 05:47 AM
BB attendence has to be a concern this year. That is why it is probably on the agenda at staff meetings of the HPER Dept at SDSU.

One thing I think that might be a factor is the distance a Fan is from Frost. If we are heading for the Elite Eight, we seem to draw more people from Sioux Falls, Watertown, Huron, Mitchell and other places in SD. If we are in this transitition period that we are, these fans are not as likely to attend, and drive the 50 plus miles.

SDSU has its diehards and even this year, I dont feel the urge to make it to Brookings either. I know it sound very excusable, but its wait until next year. I think with the new players we have and will recruit, the red shirts from this year, we should have a more solid and competitive team.

I think the old fans who enjoy seeing SDSU win, will be driving up more next year. There is likely to be more locals getting interested.

Our season ticket holders are SDSU's guarentee in that even if the ticket office is slow, these people hold the bottom from falling out financially. The season ticket holders have paid up front and their decisions to attend or not to attend have no bearing on the program financially.

I dont know where we stand on season ticket holders this year as opposed to last. That would be a big key as far as what is going on this year.

Is UNO 51 points better than SDSU? I dont think so figures lie and liars figure Mav No1.

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 06:03 AM
Does a UNO fan really want to talk about attendence? ::)

Go State! ;D

OK_Jackrabbit
12-29-2004, 06:19 AM
UNO
6 home dates. Average attendance: 845

12/11: 625
12/7: 950
11/27: 1150
11/26: 950
11/21: 500
11/18: 1200

Interesting. Very ROUND numbers there. Amazing that exactly the same number of people came to the 11/26 and 12/7 games.

I think they're using the USD Crowd Estimation System (USDCES, patent-pending). SDSU actually counts the number of people who enter Frost Arena. What a concept.

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 06:37 AM
Maverick,

Big Jake is already our resident UMKC fan. Maybe you could become our Creighton Fan. At least then you would be talking about D-I sports with us. What do you think. It is clear that everyone else who cares about basketball in Omaha only cares about the Bluejays. Bluejays #1 has a nice ring to it. ;)

Go State! ;D

bigjake
12-29-2004, 06:46 AM
I take back everything I said about you having a chance to beat UMKC. We should get our first win that nite. Wayne has a couple of really good big guys but to lose by 25 at home to an above avg d2 team is amazing. I will predict UNO will turn around and beat them by double figures tonite.
I would love to know how the avg fan and the avg student feels about a year of losing like this. The 2 dozen or so fanatics on this site have so much emotional baggage tied up into this move that you couldn't move them off their position with a monumental tidal wave of losses. But I just wonder what the avg fan and the typical student of sdsu are feeling right now. I will bet it is not good.

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 06:58 AM
Smack us all you want about last nights game we deserve it. As I said on another thread I can't remember a more disappointing performance.

However, the loss has everything to do with this team and the rebuilding job that is going on here at State, and nothing to do with our decision to move up to D-I. We lost 7 players from last years team. We were not going to be strong no matter what division we played at, the guys proved that last night. I admit I thoght we would do better, but as most of you know I am an optimist.

Big Jake, how do you think the avg. fan student feels about our Women's team (who is not rebuilding) giving #20 Purdue all they wanted and more last night? D-I was still the right move for SDSU and last nights Men's Basketball game has done nothing to change that fact.

Go State! ;D

P.S. what is up with the pathetic crowds for UNO men's basketball. If the people of Omaha can't support a winner at UNO, who can they support? Oh yea the D-I team in town, Creighton, I forgot. It must suck to be the second best school in your own town. ;)

Mavericks#1
12-29-2004, 07:23 AM
89 Rabbitt


You bring up a valid point about your womens team. I would admit they are good. But here is something for you to ponder.
Remember that tennis match that they dubbed Battle of the Sexes. You remember that epic battle between Bille Jean King and Bobby Riggs. It filled the astrodome and had a large TV audience.
Well I am proposing Battle of the Sexes Part 2 between your mens and womens basketball teams. You laugh now but how many people thought Billie Jean King
would win that tennis match. I think that Vegas would have the mens team as a 10 point favorite. I would take your womens team plus the points and lay the house on it.

Mavs#1

P.S. Come on Lady Rabbitts

bigjake
12-29-2004, 07:40 AM
89 rabbit, I can not argue with your assertion that people don't support uno bb. I have never figured out why. They play hard and have had some good teams recently. They deserve better
But as I have said in the past women's sports are just "fluff around the edges". It is nice to win and have good teams but the measure of success to me is
1. mens bb 2. men's 1aa fb and then all the rest.
The big problem I have with teams like sdsu moving up is that there really is not a good fit for schools like them at the present time. I think you can make a good case that sdsu doesn't belong in d2 with the changes going on but you can also say they don't really belong in d1 either except at the bottom of the division with all the other struggling bottom feeding programs that get their brains beat out constantly. The same can be said for umkc, (UNO if they went d1) and a ton of other schools. Until the ncaa allows for some kind of reclassification into something like a 1aa for all sports then schools at the bottom of d1 and top of d2 will always be a little out of place. In sdsu's case you may be way out of place - it is too early to tell. As time goes on maybe uno will be way out of place, too if we continue losing all the powerful d2 schools to d1

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 07:59 AM
We have gone over and over all the reasons why SDSU is a fit for D-I and not D-II. I know it is hard to see if you have the NCC blinders on*, but the NCC was and is the D-II exception and not the rule. Look at the facts. That is all I have to say on the topic. We have talked this one to death. SDSU has left D-II and we are not coming back. Get over it and move on.

Go State! ;D



(*Not a slam, the NCC was a great D-II conference in it's day but SDSU and other NCC schools have simply outgrown D-II. I was all for the NCC moving up together as was SDSU and NDSU but it didn't happen and we moved up, best of luck to those schools who feel that D-II is a better fit for them).

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 08:35 AM
Until the ncaa allows for some kind of reclassification into something like a 1aa for all sports then schools at the bottom of d1 and top of d2 will always be a little out of place.

Big Jake,

You need to remember that SDSU is growing into D-I. UMKC has been there for 20 years. We will continue to get better (look out Purdue). Also the NCAA will never go to I-AA for all sports and I wouldn't want them to. Here are some highlights from a recent NCAA story:

http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/ncaa_news_online/2004/12_20_04/front_page_news/4126n03.html

Division II rides membership roller-coaster


Growth was too rapid four years ago, but attrition now the concern
By David Pickle
The NCAA News

Four years ago, the front page of The NCAA News was dominated by a story about a potential membership glut in Division II.

The story, "Filled to Overflowing," described how Division II membership growth could rapidly accelerate if institutions moved from the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics to the NCAA. Also, the story reflected concern that a< number of Division III members could reclassify to Division II (and still offer no athletics scholarships) to avoid more demanding sports-sponsorship requirements that were about to be imposed by Division III.

Fast forward now to the July 7-9 meeting of the Division II Membership Committee. At that time, the committee identified steps that should be taken to retain and even recruit institutions for Division II. . . .

The 2004 question involves a completely different set of circumstances -- the prospect of the loss of prominent programs to Division I. Longwood, North Dakota State and South Dakota State Universities already are in Division I's provisional-member process, along with the University of California, Davis, and the University of Northern Colorado. The University of North Florida has begun the exploratory process for Division I membership, as has New Jersey Institute of Technology and Kennesaw State University. The University of North Dakota has formed an internal committee to examine the advisability of changing classification. The University of Central Arkansas and Winston-Salem State University have expressed public interest in exploring Division I membership in 2005-06.

While the Division II strategic plan clearly defines a desire for the membership to stabilize at about 290 institutions and 25 conferences, it does not address what the nature of those schools should be. The question at hand, then, is whether the nature of the division is being changed as the prominent programs are replaced by new members.

To that, Division II Management Council Chair Sue Willey says "no" -- that Division II is what it is.

"To me, the issue isn't that our division is changing, or that it might somehow change in the future as the result of this loss of members," said Willey, director of athletics at the University of Indianapolis. "The fact is that we are already more like Division III than we are like Division I, which to me is as it should be. We are talking about athletics housed in a college setting. . . .

http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/ncaa_news_online/2004/12_20_04/graphics/20.jpg


Go SDSU, South Dakota's only D-I University! ;D

SDsportsFan
12-29-2004, 09:09 AM
I don't know if I would say we have outgrown DII, it's not as if we were dominating DII in every sport. I used to be against the move to D-I, but after seeing how we have fared on our home court to some DII teams then I am kind of glad we moved up. Winning a national title will probably be out of the question now, but I do think there are several D-I conferences out there that we can win. Maybe not this year's team, but in the future. There are so many D-I schools out there that aren't as good as the DII schools around here. We beat Tenn. St. on their court and I think Rabbit89 said that they are ranked #111 in the RPI. Wayne St., an average DII team, beat us by like 26 on our court.
The only problem that I will have to deal with now is not ever feeling like we might win the national title. Maybe I will get the same excitement from getting a birth into the NCAA tournament, I guess we will see when that time comes.
I look foward to our women playing NDSU. Our women seem to be pretty damn good, but I will get a much better feeling after seeing them play NDSU, since I know more about NDSU than these other teams. It doesn't surprise me at all to see the success that our women are having. I wonder if they could have won the title this year in DII.

jackrabbit1979
12-29-2004, 09:35 AM
89 rabbit, I can not argue with your assertion that people don't support uno bb. I have never figured out why. They play hard and have had some good teams recently. They deserve better
But as I have said in the past women's sports are just "fluff around the edges". It is nice to win and have good teams but the measure of success to me is
1. mens bb 2. men's 1aa fb and then all the rest.
The big problem I have with teams like sdsu moving up is that there really is not a good fit for schools like them at the present time. I think you can make a good case that sdsu doesn't belong in d2 with the changes going on but you can also say they don't really belong in d1 either except at the bottom of the division with all the other struggling bottom feeding programs that get their brains beat out constantly. The same can be said for umkc, (UNO if they went d1) and a ton of other schools. Until the ncaa allows for some kind of reclassification into something like a 1aa for all sports then schools at the bottom of d1 and top of d2 will always be a little out of place. In sdsu's case you may be way out of place - it is too early to tell. As time goes on maybe uno will be way out of place, too if we continue losing all the powerful d2 schools to d1


You have some legit points Jake (god i hate saying that) but i would argue that Women's basketball is much more than fluff around the edges, espcially in the last 5 years or so. Ask anyone at Tennessee, UCONN, University of Minnesota (last year with their excitement) even Purdue last night they had 4000 butts in the seats, which is probably more than your beloved mavs or roos have had for any sproting event this year men's or women's. And that was against little old SDSU a provisional D1 team.

89rabbit
12-29-2004, 09:36 AM
SDsportsFan,

When I talk about outgrowing D-II, I mean physically out growing D-II. Our University is of a size and academic stature that to find peers we need to be in D-I.

If winning national championships was the only goal then a move to NAIA would be the answer. Sure we would have nothing in common with the NAIA schools, but we sure could win a lot of National Championships.

I know you are kind of new to the board, but look through some of the older threads we have covered this topic to death. We are way oversized (enrollment/mission/funding) by D-II standards.

Go State! ;D

P.S. you really should not get so hung up on individual scores and then try an ascertain how this one effects another (I/E Wayne St. beats SDSU by 26, Marquette only beat SDSU by 16, Marquette beat # 24 Wisconsin by 9 so Wayne State should beat Wisconsin by 19. . . it doesn't work like that).

SDSUFAN
12-31-2004, 03:38 AM
Why is one game so much a factor? Its not. This conversation seems to be about self doubt. Sorry I wont bite. ;D ;D

Alumguy
12-31-2004, 05:33 AM
bigjake, you need to move out of the cave. Women's sports isn't "fluff around the edges." I get just as excited watching our women play as I do our men, regardless of the year we are having in those sports.

The fact that you downplay women's athletics tells me you are firmly entrenched in 1950s mentality. Some people, thankfully, are moving on.

jackmd
01-01-2005, 08:14 AM
bigjake, you need to move out of the cave. Women's sports isn't "fluff around the edges." I get just as excited watching our women play as I do our men, regardless of the year we are having in those sports.

The fact that you downplay women's athletics tells me you are firmly entrenched in 1950s mentality. Some people, thankfully, are moving on.

Its clear that "lack of intelligents and foresight" has been seen in evals for jake and mav many times. I think the same holds true for anyone who is ready to condemn the move to DI on the basis of this weeks (or seasons) performance by the men's BB team. These games would have likely been losses for a DII SDSU team. Imagine how discouraged we would all be if that were the case. Nothing to look forward to except trips to Vermillion and UNO and having to host the same. Again, I'm okay with where we are now and excited about where we will be.