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sports_buff
02-10-2005, 07:01 AM
Normally 89Rabbit has links posted on this site, to Solari's articles on State, before the argusleader even puts them up. However, I couldn't help but notice that he didn't post today's article on the Jackrabbits. For those of you who haven't gotten a chance to read the article, I figured I would post it for you. Your welcome. ;D

SDSU attendance down
Schools officials expects numbers to rise next season

Chris Solari
csolari@argusleader.com

published: 02/10/05


A handful of fans watch from behind the basket as the SDSU men’s basketball team takes on Southwest Minnesota at Frost Arena last Monday.
(Stuart Villanueva - Argus Leader)
ATTENDANCE NUMBERS
SDSU men's basketball home attendance, 2000-01 to this year


Games Total Avg. 04-05:
11 17,783 1,617 04-05:
17 57,383 3,375 03-04:
17 59,357 3,492 02-03:
17 75,633 4,449 01-02:
14 52,707 3,765 00-01

SDSU women's basketball home attendance, 2000-01 to this year

Games Total Avg.
7 10,473 1,496 04-05:
14 34,777 2,484 03-04:
19 51,172 2,693 02-03:
15 38,626 2,575 01-02:
13 24,004 1,846 00-01

COMING UP
INDOOR TRACK: Friday-Saturday, Iowa State Classic, Ames, Iowa

WOMEN'S TENNIS: Friday, vs. Augustana, Sioux Falls, Sioux Empire Fitness

WRESTLING: Friday, hosting Northern Iowa, 7 p.m.

MEN'S TENNIS: Saturday, vs. Dordt, Sioux Falls, Sioux Empire Fitness.

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL: Saturday, University of Sioux Falls, 7 p.m., Frost Arena.

BROOKINGS - There's a framed photo of a jam-packed 1997 game at Frost Arena that sits on a table in the venue's press box, a symbol of a glorious, ear-ringing era at South Dakota State.

Glance out into Frost these days, and you'll see a sea of empty seats and hear more echo from the cowbell than roaring crowds.

Men's and women's basketball attendance has dropped off significantly this season, the school's first at Division I, but Athletic Director Fred Oien said it was an anticipated decline because of home games against mostly NAIA teams and the men and women not playing games on the same nights.

At the same time, Oien expects the attendance to increase once Division I opponents start visiting South Dakota next season.

With their home schedule finished, the Jackrabbit men averaged 1,617 fans for their 11 home contests, down more than 50 percent from 3,375 in 17 games a year ago.

The SDSU women are at 1,496 a game after 851 watched the team's victory over Si Tanka-Huron on Wednesday.

SDSU was second nationally in Division II women's attendance for 2003-04. The 2,484 average was just behind North Dakota State for the second straight year.

"We understood that because the way that basketball scheduling was going to work, being a non-counter (for Division I teams in RPI), that we were going to play predominantly a non-conference schedule," Oien said. "(Non-conference) attendance had always been a lot lower than being in a conference."

Last season, the Jackrabbit women drew 1,752 fans for six non-league games, while the men averaged 2,575 in nine contests. Both numbers are higher than this year's average attendance.

This season's high-water marks for fans came against North Dakota State, which is also making its transition to Division I. The women's game between the two schools, with 4,739 fans, setting a single-game women's record at Frost, and actually outdrew the men's game (4,281).

Oien likened the NDSU games to how a theater fills up for a highly regarded film's opening.

"They were both weekend games and, obviously, against a familiar foe," he said. "But at the same time, people's expectations for those games were good, quality competition. Everyone brings perception when they buy a ticket on its value."

Up in Fargo, NDSU is experiencing the same kind of difficulties drawing fans. The Bison men have averaged 1,280 fans in nine home games, while the women have drawn 1,268 to 10 games. Both totals are down by more than 1,000 fans a contest compared to last season.

"There's no question the quality of our home opponents hasn't been as good as it has been in the past," Bison men's basketball coach Tim Miles told the Grand Forks Herald last week. "This year, it's not. But (the home schedule) will be stronger next year and stronger as you go on."

NDSU hosts SDSU for a men's-women's doubleheader on Feb. 26.

SDSU was allowed to schedule whatever opponents it could in its first of a five-year transition to full-fledged Division I status. Next year, Oien said the Jackrabbits must play a minimum of 23 D-I opponents for both men and women, with at least nine of those games being at Frost. They'll also be able to schedule four non-Division I games, all of which will be held in Brookings.

Oien said that though the two SDSU teams won't have the opportunity to piggyback each other's crowds without doubleheader, the opponents' name recognition should help sell tickets.

"A lot of that will hold true when Arkansas State and Butler come here, or when Alabama comes here for the women," Oien said. "All of a sudden, the perception of what's going to happen at the game creates more fan interest."

Reach Chris Solari at 977-3923.

89rabbit
02-10-2005, 08:12 AM
Normally 89Rabbit has links posted on this site, to Solari's articles on State, before the argusleader even puts them up. However, I couldn't help but notice that he didn't post today's article on the Jackrabbits.



Congrats you beat me to posting this. The Argus used to post their stories on line at about 11:30 PM the day before. With a new baby in the house I was still up. Now she is going to bed sooner and the stories are posting later.

The reason I post the link to the story and NEVER post an entire story is because to not do so would be a volation of copyright laws. It is permissible to quote a large (almost all of) part of the story but not all of it.

Turning to your USD glee over the diminished numbers at Frost. As optimistic as I am I knew our attendance numbers were going to be down this year in Basketball.

We went from playing double headers on Friday and Saturday to playing single games spread out over the week. Add to that this year's transition schedule and even a blind man could see that it would be down.

I bought season tickets for Jackrabbit basketball not because of the teams on this schedule but in spit of them. I wanted to show my support to an even greater extent (was already a member of the Jackrabbit Club) for our move to D-I. I also had the vision to see that soon Frost will be packed again because of the teams coming in the future and I wanted good seats. This being a reallocation year, I will have the same seats for this season and the two after it.

I was rewarded with great seats, behind the basket, that I will enjoy even more next season when Manhattan, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Alabama, and the rest come to Frost.

One must also recognize that the Women's Program now has paying customers of it's own and I think that is good for SDSU. They Woment set a single game attendance record for the only D-I home game on their schedule. The Men's attendance was up (compared to the rest of the home schedule) for it's only home D-I game. Also keep in mind that half of the Men's home games were played in Frost during school breaks, so no students to speak of. Again, as we move forward and the flexibility of our schedule goes up this will not be the case in future years.

This story didn't touch on it, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that SDSU set a Single Season Attendance record for football this past fall. We beat USD's attendence in that sport with 2 fewer home games.

Finally I have to ask how is USD's basketball attendence this year? The big rivalry with Augie working out for you? Sports_buff, keep in mind that the largests single game crowds in Frost Arena history (both Men's and Women's) don't involve your beloved Coyotes. Can you say the same? SDSU will be just fine.

Go State! ;D

89rabbit
02-10-2005, 08:14 AM
Here is the link by the way.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050210/SPORTS0202/502100333/1002/SPORTS

Go State! ;D

sdman
02-10-2005, 09:01 AM
The thing I worry about is that we have a lot of increased expenses that are coming right away in this move and yet it may take some time to build revenues to catch up to the increased expenses. (ie-diminished attendance). I do think we will catch up in a couple of years but what is going to happen in the next year or two when we are probably going to run a deficit. Where does the extra money come from or what gets cut? Anybody know?

89rabbit
02-10-2005, 09:08 AM
A valid concern, but as Mike_H pointed out on another thread with guarantees paid by some of the Bigger programs (Marquette, San Diego State, etc.) we actually will have greater revenues this season.

Go State! ;D

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-10-2005, 09:15 AM
We get a pretty nice check when we travel to other d1 programs, gaurantee money I believe is what they term it. Remember, if we draw 1500 for a mens game and 1500 for a women's game, that's the equivelant of 3000 for a double header in years past. Those same people will also buy an ice cream cone or coke at each event, doubling our concessions revenue.

Sure would be nice to see some Jackrabbit apparrel being sold at some of the games, maybe next year :-/

sports_buff
02-10-2005, 10:07 AM
Finally I have to ask how is USD's basketball attendence this year? The big rivalry with Augie working out for you?



I'm not positive but I think USD's attendance is about the same as it has been. Obviously USD is missing the big draw from the State game that it is used to. As far as the rivalry goes with Augie, well there isn't much of a rivalry. You can't manufacture a rivalry, as I'm sure State found out with NDSU in basketball this year. Ya it was your biggest draw--which isn't saying much--but it was no where near the crowds that you were drawing for the USD games; just as Augie didn't bring in near the crowd for USD that State did.
I'm glad to see you have remained so optimistic through all of this, it couldn't have been easy. I commend you for that.

Jacks99
02-10-2005, 10:17 AM
Those figures aren't comparing apples to apples.

In the past those attending the Women's games paid their $10/12 to attend it and got the Men's for free.

Now they are seperate. It's still down, but not as bad as it looks.

I would say overall attendence is down roughly 1/3 or less. Not bad for the oppenents we played, timing of games, single games instead of double headers....

OK_Jackrabbit
02-10-2005, 10:42 AM
I'm not positive but I think USD's attendance is about the same as it has been. Obviously USD is missing the big draw from the State game that it is used to.

USD has had 12 home games at the DakotaDome, drawing 25,325 for an average of: 2110.

Granted, that'll go up some. They've got some big home games coming up. But it's not particularly impressive.

jackmd
02-10-2005, 11:03 AM
Not much about the move to DI for the men's BB team can be considered a success this year. Its been disappointing to say the least. Nothing will change that. We did get our first DI win and thats about all I'll say about that. Even if things completely turn around next year, 2 years from now or 5 years from now, it doesn't change that fact that this year has been a disappointment. Eventual success (no garuantee) does not excuse the futility demonstrated during stretches of this inagural season. All that said, whats done is done. Attendance had better improve, we all know that.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-10-2005, 12:12 PM
Our move to D1 has little/nothing to do with the poor performance of this years mens BB team, Our record would be just as unimpressive had we stayed DII. Our players would be the same. Moeller's transfer probably would have happened even if we had stayed D2. This was just a year that we had to get out of the way, to prepare for the future

SDSUFAN
02-10-2005, 12:36 PM
Our move to D1 has little/nothing to do with the poor performance of this years mens BB team, Our record would be just as unimpressive had we stayed DII. Our players would be the same. Moeller's transfer probably would have happened even if we had stayed D2. This was just a year that we had to get out of the way, to prepare for the future

I believe it was rabbit4life that pointed out that Moeller was forced to transfer if he wanted to use his final year of eligibilty. As I understood it, under D1 rules, moeller was done in terms of eligibilty. I dont have the patience and time to study NCAA regs, but if that is true, I wish now that a press release had been made explaining this situation. The Admin at SDSU seems to get some undeserved black eyes with this "no comment attitude" and average fan can't understand why Moeller left SDSU.

Privately I had wondered if something else was wrong, but in this case it was no one fault except that Andy wanted to play one more year and he did what he had to do in order to play, and that was to tranfer to another D2 institution. A good public relations person could have save SDSU some grief by getting a press release out when he left.


The attendence as the article states is a big pain of transitition and nothing else. I am not worried and will be back next year. At least we did not have go the legislature for 1.8 million to balance the athletic dept budget. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

filbert
02-10-2005, 04:56 PM
I can't buy the argument that Moeller was somehow ineligible this year. One of the few rational arguments for the inexcusably long transitional period is exactly to not penalize players for the rule differences between the divisions. In any event, I believe that technically, SDSU is still an NCAA D-II school in year 1 of the D-I transition this year, and is not officially a D-I school. Certainly not all D-I rules yet apply.

jackmd
02-10-2005, 05:05 PM
I can't buy the argument that Moeller was somehow ineligible this year. One of the few rational arguments for the inexcusably long transitional period is exactly to not penalize players for the rule differences between the divisions. In any event, I believe that technically, SDSU is still an NCAA D-II school in year 1 of the D-I transition this year, and is not officially a D-I school. Certainly not all D-I rules yet apply.

I think it doesn't matter, but based on what Nagy said about the unfortunate late timing of Moeller's announcement and our lack of guards, I suspect he was eligible to play.

1stRowFANatic
02-10-2005, 07:01 PM
Fred Oien was on KSOO either Monday or Tuesday and they asked him about the M/W basketball attendance and revenue. He stated that while the attendance numbers are down a fair amount from last year, the revenue from home games is nearly the same. Main reason is that in previous years it was almost always a 2 for 1 deal, but now you have to pay for each.

If I remember correctly, SDSU averaged around 4000 for all games. If you get 1500 at each now, and have extra concession sales from more nights, it doesn't surprise me that the revenue is close. Previous years seemed to have low attendance for non-conference games in comparison to conference games, this year the attendance seems to be more consistent.

My numbers are probably off, but I'm sure someone on the board can correct them. :)

SDSUFAN
02-10-2005, 10:16 PM
I can't buy the argument that Moeller was somehow ineligible this year. One of the few rational arguments for the inexcusably long transitional period is exactly to not penalize players for the rule differences between the divisions. In any event, I believe that technically, SDSU is still an NCAA D-II school in year 1 of the D-I transition this year, and is not officially a D-I school. Certainly not all D-I rules yet apply.

Basically what rabbit4life said was that medical redshirts given under D2 do not apply under D1. I am not the compliance officer, so not up on the rules, but if rabbit4life comment is correct, I would not be too surprised. Granted we have d2 refs and our attendence is maintained as D2, but maybe it has to do with the time span allowed under D2 as opposed to D1.

I tried to find some info on the NCAA site and did not have any luck.

jackbacker
02-10-2005, 10:16 PM
The reason Moeller left is to get another chance at winning a D2 National Championship. I'm sure coming into college basketball, that was his dream, to someday be a National Champion. Thereore, when we moved to D1, that chance got taken away from him. Hence, he moved to a great team with a good shot at winning the whole thing. And with Andy's help, they probably will. Good luck Andy!!!! ;)

89rabbit
02-11-2005, 05:12 AM
Welcome to the board jackbacker, thanks for posting!

Go State! ;D

jackmd
02-11-2005, 09:46 AM
The reason Moeller left is to get another chance at winning a D2 National Championship. I'm sure coming into college basketball, that was his dream, to someday be a National Champion. Thereore, when we moved to D1, that chance got taken away from him. Hence, he moved to a great team with a good shot at winning the whole thing. And with Andy's help, they probably will. Good luck Andy!!!! ;)

Bit of a reach here. They have excellent talent but haven't played togther very long and haven't really been tested. I think they'll make a good showing but won't get out of the regional.

sports_buff
02-11-2005, 10:29 AM
Bit of a reach here. They have excellent talent but haven't played togther very long and haven't really been tested. I think they'll make a good showing but won't get out of the regional.


If Metro. is anywhere near as good as last year then I don't see any of the NCC teams getting by them. I hope I'm wrong, I would love to see an NCC team go the Elite 8, but in order for that to happen Metro will have needed to have gotten worse. Do any of you State fans remember if they had very many seniors last year?

sfgrad
02-11-2005, 01:27 PM
I am new to the posting but have been regularly reading the responses. I have been a supporter of all SD athletics and all SD colleges for some time. I felt compelled to respond to these posts saying that Moeller would have been ineligible to play DI. This is out rigt nonsense. First of all, if he was eligible to play DII, he is eligible to play DI. Basically the only differences between the two is the graduation status of Juco kids and the running five year clock, none of which apply to Moeller. Furthermore, there is posts stating he would have transferred even if SDSU stayed DII. This is nonsense as well because he would have run out of eligibility. The NCC requires a transfer within the conference to sit out for one year. Since, Moeller used his redshirt year at State, he would run out of semesters of eligibility sitting out at Mankato. Although some may question Margenthaler, he is not that idiotic to waste a scholarship on a kid that would never be eligible. Although some may not believe this or want to hear this, this is accurate.

sports_buff
02-11-2005, 01:43 PM
Basically the only differences between the two is the graduation status of Juco kids and the running five year clock, none of which apply to Moeller. Furthermore, there is posts stating he would have transferred even if SDSU stayed DII. This is nonsense as well because he would have run out of eligibility. The NCC requires a transfer within the conference to sit out for one year. Since, Moeller used his redshirt year at State, he would run out of semesters of eligibility sitting out at Mankato.
It's actually a running 6 year clock, not 5. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to take both a redshirt and a medical redshirt in your college career. But I agree, I do think that Moeller would have been eligible at State, had he stayed. If not, we would have heard it from somewhere other than this chat board.

NDSU_grad
02-11-2005, 02:07 PM
Did Moeller take a fresman redshirt and medical redshirt? If so then the rules regarding eligibility are different between the two division. NDSU has an offensive lineman who was denied a sixth year by the NCAA, but could have played under DII rules.

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
02-11-2005, 02:17 PM
It's actually a running 6 year clock, not 5. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to take both a redshirt and a medical redshirt in your college career. But I agree, I do think that Moeller would have been eligible at State, had he stayed. If not, we would have heard it from somewhere other than this chat board.



Actually, I believe it's based on semesters. I was redshirted and hardshipped. Had I chose to play my final semester of eligibility of football I would have had to be off the football team during spring semester. I also would have on my own financially for that spring semester. I believe each player is awarded 8 semesters of eligibility plus 1 redshirt semester and 1 possible hardship semester. That's not from the official NCAA rules, but experience as how it was explained to me when I was going through it. Anyone know for sure?

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-11-2005, 02:29 PM
I guess this thread has turned into a NCAA rules thread. Personally I believe Moeller was eligible to play this year at SD State. My point was he was going to transfer regardless of the D1 move. I think there were issues and he wanted a new home.
IMO- If SDSU was D2 Andy would still be at Minnesota St. this season. It just was a convienant reason to transfer.

jackmd
02-11-2005, 02:47 PM
Doesn't matter what might have happened it only matters what did. Andy plays for Coach M. in Mankato and has a shot at some continued D2 success. As for us, we need some guard help before the first tip of the 2005-06 season. Time to look forward, not back.

sfgrad
02-11-2005, 05:27 PM
I understand I am new to the board but I wish you would listen to me. I know what I am talking about. As a student athlete in a d1 or d2 school, you are granted TEN semesters of eligibility. The difference being in d1, those ten semesters must be played consecutively, hence a running clock (exceptions for pregnancy and mormon missions). A medical redshirt year may be granted a student athlete from the NCAA. This extra year replaces two of the ten semesters granted each athlete. All medical redshirts are granted based on a criteria. In bball, it is being injured and not able to play in 20% of the teams games. Do not mean to ruffle feathers with the knowledge, just want everyone to know the rules.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-11-2005, 06:38 PM
SF Grad,
I BELIEVE YOU

bisonguy
02-11-2005, 06:59 PM
Why not look it up and read for yourselves?? ???

I'll even help you guys out with the proper section-

14.2 SEASONS OF COMPETITION: FIVE-YEAR RULE

Look it up here- (page 149)2004-2005 NCAA DI Manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2004-05/2004-05_d1_manual.pdf)

It's a pretty big file, but a very handy reference.

sports_buff
02-11-2005, 08:59 PM
I understand I am new to the board but I wish you would listen to me. I know what I am talking about. As a student athlete in a d1 or d2 school, you are granted TEN semesters of eligibility. The difference being in d1, those ten semesters must be played consecutively, hence a running clock (exceptions for pregnancy and mormon missions). A medical redshirt year may be granted a student athlete from the NCAA. This extra year replaces two of the ten semesters granted each athlete. All medical redshirts are granted based on a criteria. In bball, it is being injured and not able to play in 20% of the teams games. Do not mean to ruffle feathers with the knowledge, just want everyone to know the rules.


You are granted 10 semester of eligibility, that would mean you could play for 5 years. I think you mean you have 10 semesters to use your eligibility.
Plus you can't play in more than 20% of the games to get a medical redshirt--not the other way around like you explained it.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-11-2005, 09:07 PM
Speaking of Andy, I just returned from the USD v Mankato game. USD won on a lay-up/prayer with 1 sec left (the kid traveled). The had a chance to go the distance of the court with 1 sec, but the u knocked the ball out of bounds. Margentaler was pissed, he sprinted after the refs as they called the game. MSU got screwed. When the U made the layup with 1 sec, their benched stormed on to the floor, Mueller was humping the kid who made the shot ??? Then when they knocked the inbounds pass directly out of bounds, once again everyone stormed the floor. The refs conferred, and decided to end the game, that's when Coach M sprinted after the refs. There should have been some time on the clock, although it probably wouldn't have mattered. Mueller is continues to be a clown on the court, granted he hit some big shots.

bisonguy
02-11-2005, 09:18 PM
It's not 10 semesters, it's called the Five Year Rule by the NCAA ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Read the book - 2004-2005 NCAA DI Manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2004-05/2004-05_d1_manual.pdf)


14.2 SEASONS OF COMPETITION: FIVE-YEAR RULE
A student-athlete shall not engage in more than four seasons of intercollegiate competition in any one
sport (see Bylaws 14.02.6 and 14.3.2). An institution shall not permit a student-athlete to represent it in
intercollegiate competition unless the individual completes all of his or her seasons of participation in all
sports within the time periods specified below:
14.2.1 Five-Year Rule. A student-athlete shall complete his or her seasons of participation within five
calendar years from the beginning of the semester or quarter in which the student-athlete first registered
for a minimum full-time program of studies in a collegiate institution, with time spent in the armed services,
on official church missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government being
excepted. For foreign students, service in the armed forces or on an official church mission of the studentís
home country is considered equivalent to such service in the United States.
14.2.1.1 Determining the Start of the Five-Year Period. For purposes of starting the count of time
under the five-year rule, a student-athlete shall be considered registered at a collegiate institution
(domestic or foreign; see Bylaw 14.02.3) when the student-athlete initially registers in a regular
term (semester or quarter) of an academic year for a minimum full-time program of studies, as
determined by the institution, and attends the studentís first day of classes for that term (see
Bylaw 14.2.2).

sports_buff
02-11-2005, 09:24 PM
Speaking of Andy, I just returned from the USD v Mankato game. USD won on a lay-up/prayer with 1 sec left (the kid traveled). The had a chance to go the distance of the court with 1 sec, but the u knocked the ball out of bounds. Margentaler was pissed, he sprinted after the refs as they called the game. MSU got screwed. When the U made the layup with 1 sec, their benched stormed on to the floor, Mueller was humping the kid who made the shot ??? Then when they knocked the inbounds pass directly out of bounds, once again everyone stormed the floor. The refs conferred, and decided to end the game, that's when Coach M sprinted after the refs. There should have been some time on the clock, although it probably wouldn't have mattered. Mueller is continues to be a clown on the court, granted he hit some big shots.

You forgot to mention how MSU got the lead in the first place. They were down by 6 with a minute to go. With under a minute to go Staten got rejected on a 3 pointer, however they called a BS foul. He hits all 3 FT's, then with USD up by a point they got hammered under the basket with about 14 seconds left but there was a no call which set up the go ahead bucket for MSU.
It was a great game and the better team won. I wish Andy could have gotten a bucket tonight.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-11-2005, 09:27 PM
It was a great game, but the better team is Mankato. How many horsecrap fouls were whistled on Mankato's big men, when they should have been on Trofholz. Staten was fouled. I wish Andy would have gotten a bucket too, could have been a difference maker.

Usd shot 30 ft's, while Mankato shot 16 :o

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-11-2005, 09:31 PM
What happened to Aaron Green? I suppose he spent a little time in Vermillion and realized what mistake he made so he got the hell out of dodge....

SDSUFAN
02-12-2005, 03:11 AM
Since I am the one that seems to make no sense according to sfgrad, and started this topic, I went to the SDSU site and the archieved stats. The stats for the 1999-2000 season are no longer out there but based on what I did find here is what they show in terms of games played for Andy Moeller

2000-2001 27

2001-2002 30

2002-2003 4

2003-2004 34

If he was on campus for year 1999-2000 then he would be out of eligibilty. I dont have my game programs from 1999-20 handy. The programs are in storage, but it looks like Andy was very close on this issue, so its a point.

cactus
02-12-2005, 07:29 AM
If he is playing at Mankato, he could have played at State. If you dont believe it, why dont you ask coach Nagy or Larson. If anyone talks to them, you will find that it is a very sore spot with both of them. Andy could have made the team better, but he also has some baggage that he carries with him.

SDSUFAN
02-12-2005, 07:43 AM
Cactus:

Its not a matter of believing you or anyone else, I just trying to get to the facts here. Better yet I will check with the compliance officer. She will know.

sports_buff
02-12-2005, 08:12 AM
What happened to Aaron Green? I suppose he spent a little time in Vermillion and realized what mistake he made so he got the hell out of dodge....

Aaron Green walked out of practice pouting, not sure what about. He has since tried to get back on the team but Boots said no, you already walked out on your team. I'm sure Green has some baggage, he had trouble with the NDSU coaching staff as well, but I wish he hadn't left the team. USD doesn't play a lot of guys and going back to back nights is going to be really tough on them. Mueller and Turner both played 40 minutes and Anderson played 37.

Mike_H
02-12-2005, 08:16 AM
SDSUFAN: I have no idea where this tangent came from!

Andy Moeller would have been playing at State this year had they not moved to D1. It is that simple. For whatever reason, he decided that he did not want to go thru a season that SDSU is going thru now for his final year. He waited until SDSU was officially a D1 institution to transfer so that he could go to Mankato and play right away. SDSU was no longer a member of the NCC, so it was not a Mandy Koupal situation, and he could transfer to a DII and not sit out, like Tommy King at USD and most of the squad at UNO. There was a thread on this last summer when it happened.

I have to agree with jackmd on this one (which is in it's self amazing!). This team is what it is. Moeller would have helped, but so would Steve Brown, Austin Hansen, and Denny Wommeldorf. They ain't comin' back. Go find some guards, forwards, and centers, and move on.

SDSUFAN
02-12-2005, 11:03 AM
Okay I give up. Moeller tranferred for whatever reason and I dont care, but it appear to me that his transfer was similar to the NDSU football players that were mentioned. That was my tangent as Mike wanted to know. The compliance officer does not have a valid email address and I got a non-delivery so I am going let this thing go and move on. ;D ;D Well I am cherised to see one of Mike's favorite mannerisms"Its that Simple"
Really????? Could I have a buck for each time I have heard that phrase on the radio? ;D

mitchellrabbit
02-12-2005, 01:58 PM
It was a great game, but the better team is Mankato. How many horsecrap fouls were whistled on Mankato's big men, when they should have been on Trofholz. Staten was fouled. I wish Andy would have gotten a bucket too, could have been a difference maker.

Usd shot 30 ft's, while Mankato shot 16 :o


i was at my dads near vermillion and we listened to the game on the radio. Kevin Culhane is the the worst play by play guy i have ever listened to. He spent the whole game disputing refs calls, making smart a s s comments about the calls instead of doing play by play. Listening to him, one would have thought the U got screwed by the refs. sounds like makato maybe did.

sports_buff
02-12-2005, 02:11 PM
i was at my dads near vermillion and we listened to the game on the radio. Kevin Culhane is the the worst play by play guy i have ever listened to. He spent the whole game disputing refs calls, making smart a s s comments about the calls instead of doing play by play. Listening to him, one would have thought the U got screwed by the refs. sounds like makato maybe did.

I was at the game and Culhane was right on, USD was getting screwed by the refs.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-12-2005, 02:13 PM
I was at the game as well, and would say that Mankato got the screw job. Overall, the refs did a poor job officiating the game.

filbert
02-12-2005, 02:32 PM
I was at the game as well, and would say that Mankato got the screw job. Overall, the refs did a poor job officiating the game.
So, in other words, the usual NCC refereeing job.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-12-2005, 02:35 PM
So, in other words, the usual NCC refereeing job.



Excatly.

bigjake
02-12-2005, 03:03 PM
I agree 100 percent with mitchell rabbit. That kevin culhane is flat out the worst anouncer I have ever heard. It is one thing to be a homer but that guy makes johnny most appear to be objective. I have been to a lot of ncc away games over the years and enjoy listening to the opposing broadcasts. I have been amazed by that culhane. He is so inept that it is almost enjoyable listening to him bc his team was always getting screwed by the officials. They are out to get USD. According to him I don't think UNO has ever had a legit. win over usd. The sdsu radio guys had some professionalism and even the augie guys did, too. But that culhane is way over the top. He is the worst!! If he was down in KY he would be branded a "peckerwood" bc that is what he is. If they pay him more than 50 bucks a game he is paid too much.

jackmd
02-12-2005, 04:40 PM
I was at the game and Culhane was right on, USD was getting screwed by the refs.


This says it all!! Enough about USD and their run for a regional bid. No NCC team has a chance in the national tournament now that SDSU has left. That goes for both men's and women's basketball (hows that for blind unabashed support, this is the smack board)!!

SDSUFAN
02-14-2005, 02:28 PM
It's not 10 semesters, it's called the Five Year Rule by the NCAA ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Read the book - 2004-2005 NCAA DI Manual (http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2004-05/2004-05_d1_manual.pdf)



From a reliable source, I was told that Andy made his own choice of leaving SDSU. He would have been eligible to finish his final season at SDSU. The issue that rabbit4life brought up about the transition from D2 to D1 and medical redshirt would have come into play next year but not this year.

So I concede, that most of you were correct in your conclusion that he could have played this year. I bought into rabbit4life notion, as it seem like a logical explaination, but it was not the facts as they are or what I wanted them to be. So I apologize for going off on a tangent.

Mavericks#1
02-15-2005, 04:50 PM
I see that Colorado fans were really excited to see SDSU come to town. A Big 12 school only draws a little over 1,600?. When UNO went out to Colorado State they drew over 2,500. To tell you how much apathy they had towards the game they scheduled on Valentines Day. But hey look at the bright side, you lost to Colorado by less than you lost to Southwest Minnesota State and that was at Home.

89rabbit
02-15-2005, 07:16 PM
We got $50,000 for our game. How much did UNO get for their exibition game?

Go State! ;D

1stRowFANatic
02-15-2005, 07:16 PM
I completely agree that Culhane is an embarassment to the profession. Mike_H, you have got to know someone down there that could do better. You should give Abbot a call and use your pull to effect some real change for the good of the South Dakota (the state, not the university). ;D

Mavericks#1
02-15-2005, 07:30 PM
http://www.csurams.com/schedule.aspx?sportID=3


Exhibition game?? And I get accused of not checking my facts. I'm not sure how much we made for going out there but I am upset we lost. It appears that the payday has become more important to you than the fact you got worked. I guess when you are having the type of season you guys are having,I guess that is what you look at. I am sure Colorado is thrilled with paying you more than they took in at the gate.


Mavs#1

sports_buff
02-15-2005, 07:33 PM
http://www.csurams.com/schedule.aspx?sportID=3


Exhibition game?? And I get accused of not checking my facts. I'm not sure how much we made for going out there but I am upset we lost. It appears that the payday has become more important to you than the fact you got worked. I guess when you are having the type of season you guys are having,I guess that is what you look at. I am sure Colorado is thrilled with paying you more than they took in at the gate.


Mavs#1

He. He. :o

89rabbit
02-15-2005, 08:42 PM
http://www.csurams.com/schedule.aspx?sportID=3


Exhibition game?? And I get accused of not checking my facts. I'm not sure how much we made for going out there but I am upset we lost.
Mavs#1

You got me . . . once. I stand corrected. You should be more upset that UNC and Northern State gave them a better game then UNO. :o

Go State! ;D

Mike_H
02-15-2005, 08:46 PM
Just as a point of fact for a topic that has somehow gotten into this thread, Kevin Culhane is the owner of the radio station that broadcasts USD games. That is as far as I am getting into this conversation! :D

Mavericks#1
02-16-2005, 03:28 AM
UNO attendence for last four home games

North Dakota 2,600
South Dakota 2,200
St. Cloud 2,050
Minnesota State 2,500

Total : 9,350

SDSU attendence last four home games

Bellevue 1,025
Winona State 1,109
Upper Iowa 1,803
Southwest Minnesota State 1,233

Total : 5,170



When UNO outdraws you by almost a 2 to 1 margin you ought to be ashamed. In my mind SDSU fans were some of the best fans around. But with these numbers it appears they are fair weathered fans. They have now gone down a few notches in my book. Nebraska football went 5-6 and yet they kept their sellout streak alive. That speaks to what true fans you are. With you going D1, fans should step up their commitment but it appears the opposite has happended. And you made fun of the attendence at UNO games. Shame on you!!!

jackrabbit1979
02-16-2005, 06:34 AM
Mav,
I would honestly bet that this is the last time UNO ever out draws SDSU over four home men's basketball games.

jackrabbit1979
02-16-2005, 06:38 AM
By the way, You never responded to the fact that you or your friend Big Jake (but i am almost positive it is you) continuously tell a few rabbit fans to get off the D2football and Basketball boards. While i was lurking over there catching up on some good D2 news i noticed your distaste for a few of those posters. That's not being very hospitable as we enjoy your posts here ::).
You should look up hypocrisy in the dictionary.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-16-2005, 06:50 AM
UNO attendence for last four home games

North Dakota 2,600
South Dakota 2,200
St. Cloud 2,050
Minnesota State 2,500

Total : 9,350



Again, some nice round numbers from UNO.
Our attendence is low for a number of reasons...
1) we're bad
2) we're playing essentially a non-confernce d2 schedule, and we're losing
3) a good portion of the games are on weeknights, not weekends and we're losing.

Do you think if UNO was playing this bad and this horrilbe schedule that they would draw anymore than 300/game? I don't.

JACKGUYII
02-16-2005, 07:23 AM
We are also honest about how many actually paid at the gate.

Mavericks#1
02-16-2005, 07:34 AM
Jackrabbitt 79



By the way, You never responded to the fact that you or your friend Big Jake (but i am almost positive it is you) continuously tell a few rabbit fans to get off the D2football and Basketball boards. While i was lurking over there catching up on some good D2 news i noticed your distaste for a few of those posters. That's not being very hospitable as we enjoy your posts here .
You should look up hypocrisy in the dictionary.



That is me, you are correct. I probably have been a little rough to some rabbitts over on those boards. If you implying that I have never been told to go to another board I would have to disagree with that. I have been put on probation here so it has not always been with open arms that I have been received. The SDSU fans that get on those boards try and hide their identity by posing as guests or changing their names. I have admitted that I am UNO Rules or Maverick #1. As far as the hypocrite things goes I would say it goes both ways. Fans here ask why I should care what goes on with SDSU while Rabbitt fans get on D2 boards. Isn't that being a hypocrite?


Mavs #1

89rabbit
02-16-2005, 07:36 AM
Why did Mav pick the last four games I wonder? Could it be that the last five would have included our only home D-I game against NDSU, with a crowd of 4,281? Its a possibility, but I am sure it is just a coincidence. ::)

Go State! ;D

89rabbit
02-16-2005, 07:46 AM
The SDSU fans that get on those boards try and hide their identity by posing as guests or changing their names.

Mavs #1

Don't you hate that? Makes me think of this guy on our board. What was his name? Oh yea it is your buddy Big Jake*. ;)


Go State! ;D


* AKA updm002, feminine_heroine (when he was claiming to be a women), big fan, and most recently GoBisonGo. ::)

bigjake
02-16-2005, 08:37 AM
It just took me awhileto try to find the appropriate moniker. I have never been accused of being a brain scientist but then I am not so stupid to not fully understand when I changed my monikers with the same email address that it was totally evident to anybody with an IQ above 60.I have never been GoBisonGo. I agree with Maverick that a lot of your fans probably miss D2 a lot more than they lead us to believe. It is not a bad thing bc D2 was very good to you.

I too agree with Mav1 that your fans aren't as devoted as I thought. When you probably have 3k students approx on campus and you can't get more than 1500 for some games it makes you wonder just how interested people are in the move to d1. Next year will be a better measure of things but based on this year your fans have not supported the Jacks as much as I would if I were one of your fans.

89rabbit
02-16-2005, 09:03 AM
As stated before in this thread the downward turn in Men's Basketball attendance has VERY little to do with the move to D-I. It has much more to do with our teams performance. I will cut the students some slack because half of this years home games were played while they were on one break or another.

If you choose to call the SDSU fans fair weather, well you may have a point. However. I think to do so you have to ignore the fact that South Dakota State set a single-season football attendance record during the 2004 season, averaging 9,846 fans per game at Coughlin-Alumni Stadium with a team that went 6-5.

Attendance for Men's basketball is down, there is no denying that, but I think you will have a hard time trying to argue that it is somehow a reaction to SDSU's move to D-I. It is more correctly attributed to a program that is rebuilding with a poor schedule.

Next year's team will be better and next year's schedule is MUCH better. If numbers are still down (which they won't be, in my opinion) then maybe you can make this argument credibly.

Go State! ;D

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-16-2005, 09:03 AM
Question for bigjake and mav

Did our fans show their support during the football season?

JACKGUYII
02-16-2005, 10:16 AM
I'm very excited about what is happening with our football program in terms of support and talent. I think it's long overdue and the potential is endless. I'm not worried about our basketball program as I know the interest is there as South Dakota is Basketball crazy. I'm seeing a real interest in the women's basketball program as evidenced by the record setting crowd against NDSU and a good crowd of over 2,000 against the university of sioux falls. The women are creating their own identity and fan base. They are no longer the exhibition game before the mens game. The men have had a terrible home schedule in terms of opponents and the timing of those games. To top it off we have a young inexperienced team that is struggling. I think beginning next year you will see a better schedule and a better team that will result in a gradual increase in attendence over the next few years. If we put together a competitive team, join a conference and have a solid home schedule look out they will pack Frost like never before. The last thing I'm worried about is the future of Mens Basketball at SDSU!

bigjake
02-16-2005, 10:16 AM
I was surprised that your fb attendance was that good but you are right that you had some nice attendance. I will be watching closely to see if your fb trends up next year or if they pull a UNC and fall thru the floor in your second year. Don't know anything about your recruits to speculate but it will be interesting to see what happens next year. Also, will be interesting if UNC is a one year deal or if d1aa tends to be more problematic for them than they thought. I tend to think it will be a one year blip for them but we shall see. FB is the one and only season that I wish UNO was in d1 - I would love to be in 1aa fb

89rabbit
02-16-2005, 10:25 AM
Jake,

If you are talking about UNC's record then I agree with you. After a good first season in I-AA, top 25 finish, they tanked in year two going 2-9. If you are talking about their attendence, that has stayed the same (for the most part) year after year.

04- UNC 4,562
03- UNC 5,746 (First year in I-AA)
02- UNC 5,984
01- UNC 5,231
00- UNC, 4860
99- UNC 6,836
98- UNC 5,563

sports_buff
02-16-2005, 10:48 AM
Our attendence is low for a number of reasons...
1) we're bad
2) we're playing essentially a non-confernce d2 schedule, and we're losing
3) a good portion of the games are on weeknights, not weekends and we're losing.



Does anyone know what nights most of your home games will be played on next year, because I will definetly admit that you have been hurt this year by a lot of your home games being played during the week. Games draw better on the weekends.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-16-2005, 11:18 AM
Does anyone know what nights most of your home games will be played on next year, because I will definetly admit that you have been hurt this year by a lot of your home games being played during the week. Games draw better on the weekends.


I'm guessing it will be pretty similar to this year. Again, next years opponents will be playing us outside of their conference games. Conference tend to be on the weekends. I don't see this changing much until we are accepted into a conference. It will help that next years games will be against d1 opponents who will draw more interest from the casual fan as opposed to Morningside etc, etc. Again, if we start winning, the fans will come out of their shells. Get your season tickets while you can.

jackrabbit1979
02-16-2005, 11:18 AM
I don't believe the schedule has officially been released yet so the dates are unknown.
As far as attendence for next year i expect basketball to go up dramatically with the quality of opponents being increased ten fold. Even if we get the snot kicked out of us everynight, people will still come to see Butler or UMKC do it more than morningside or Southwest STate. Plus i have a feeling we will be much more competitive next season

On the flipside, i would expect our football numbers to go down some based on the fact that we have eight home games instead of four. More opportunity for people to see the jacks will cause some to skip some the home dates that are available. The nice part about the football schedule is that when we play weaker opponents they are night games or promo games (Lacrosse, Missouri Rolla, Valpo, etc. ) I would tend to think that night games are better attended since we started them a couple years ago. Then when we start to play some of the conference opponents and non conf. D1aa's the name recognition and quality of opponents should bring the fans in.

Just my two cents. :)

JACKGUYII
02-16-2005, 11:40 AM
I agree it will be difficult to match our attendence figures of 2004. I hope that an average of close to 10,000 becomes the norm. I'm curious to see if we can sell out the Sioux Falls game in 10,000 seat Howard Wood. We truly have some marquise games in 2005 that even the casual fan should want to come out and see. I have been a long time season ticket holder in basketball and purchased season tickets for football for the first time last year and really enjoyed having the same good seats thoughout the season. I hope the administration is planning an extensive marketing campaign for football this year.

jackrabbit1979
02-16-2005, 11:49 AM
I hope they are planning any marketing at all, Honestly this is one area that i think the dept. really needs to step it up. I live in Brookings and rarely hear any media, see any media, or anything that would draw the casual Jack fan to Frost or Coughlin. It has gotten a little better the past year (the jackrabbit report, some tv ads, etc. ) but their still is a lot to be desired. How about some damn billboards or something? You can't drive to Sioux Falls or in Sioux Falls without seeing billboards for USD, Augie, Southwest State, etc. I don't know if it is the most effective way of advertising but it may be needed just to offset the other schools attempts. For awhile there was an Augie billboard in Brookings, i had to look at it everyday as i walked out the front door of my house in college. ::)

JackTwice
02-16-2005, 02:23 PM
To expect our attendance for football to be at or near what it was last year might be a dream. First, with 7 games in Brookings fans have more options so some of that attendance will be spread out.
Second, no marquee game like NDSU here. No team in the Great West is going to bring the 2000 or so they brought with them last season.
Third, 2 November home games. If weather is normal expect 2-3k at each of those games unless we are close to winning the conference.
I expect us to average about 7k next year which would be a solid number that I bet the Athletic dept would be happy with also.

JACKGUYII
02-16-2005, 02:52 PM
There is at least one SDSU Billboard on 41st and Western in Sioux falls. I would like to see some TV ads promoting SDSU Football games and something in the newspaper. I hope we never again see a home game in the 2000-3000 range even if the game is in November. I would think 7,000 is probably about where we will be for an average. I hope we are erroring on the lowside.

Rabbitlivinginverm
02-16-2005, 02:54 PM
I agree with 1979. The marketing department has been lacking in their efforts. It seems the only billboard from Sx Falls to Brookings that has a SDSU reference is an SDN Communications billboard with a picture of the Campanile. They should really play off the attendence figures from last year with their marketing. Make people feel like they're missing the best/biggest event in S.D. if they're not at Coughlin. I know I get all nervous and jittery if I can't get to a football game, and then if I can't get to a radio...well, I can get a little tempremental. Thankfully, I can get to most all of the home football games and get find a radio for the road games; it's a great time to do a little road hunting ;)

jackmd
02-16-2005, 03:51 PM
To expect our attendance for football to be at or near what it was last year might be a dream. First, with 7 games in Brookings fans have more options so some of that attendance will be spread out.
Second, no marquee game like NDSU here. No team in the Great West is going to bring the 2000 or so they brought with them last season.
Third, 2 November home games. If weather is normal expect 2-3k at each of those games unless we are close to winning the conference.
I expect us to average about 7k next year which would be a solid number that I bet the Athletic dept would be happy with also.

I think this is pretty accurate. Average 7-7.5K with bulk of attendance front loaded. Good weather late season 5K per game, bad weather or bad record late and more like 3K or less. How much benefit would be gained by increased advertisement? I don't know if there is precedent or studies to predict this. Money is tight and must be spent intelligently.

partyboy1
02-21-2005, 04:00 PM
This is my first time that I have ever been on this site. Pretty good stuff. I am a big fan of the jacks but sometimes me and some of my fellow and hopefully female party animals in the dorms just don't have time to make it to many of the weeknight games especially. I would like to say I am too busy studying but often I am looking for the nearest kegger party I can find that hopefully has some good looking women and lots of brew. I know that is not what many of you alumni want to hear but you were young once and being a party animal is where is at when you are 19. I go to some of the games when I have time but if they served beer at the games I am sure I would make it more often. Go SDSU!!

sdman
02-22-2005, 05:32 AM
Partyboy1, I will bet your parents are really proud of your efforts at our beloved alma mater. (sarcasm). Remember college should be a great time but you should also make some time to do well in school. Sounds like you should look into the local chapter of AA also. Good luck.

91rabbit
02-22-2005, 07:38 AM
Partyboy1, I will bet your parents are really proud of your efforts at our beloved alma mater. (sarcasm). Remember college should be a great time but you should also make some time to do well in school. Sounds like you should look into the local chapter of AA also. Good luck.

Didn't we learn our lesson re the NDSU kicker? Sometimes it's better to ignore idiots. Remember what Dr. Lilith Sternin-Crane said: "It's okay to have an unspoken thought."

jackmd
02-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Didn't we learn our lesson re the NDSU kicker? Sometimes it's better to ignore idiots. Remember what Dr. Lilith Sternin-Crane said: "It's okay to have an unspoken thought."


What if your someone who always wants the last word? I say get married, that takes care of that urge.