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bigjake
02-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Interesting article in Omaha World Herald on Saturday about MOeller transfering to MSU and how Margenthaler and Nagy have not spoken since he has changed schools. I guess some hard feelings exist. It amazes me when coaches can change jobs at will with no penalties but when a guy like moeller wants to transfer his coach gets irritated about it. I am sure nobody asked moeller for input in changing divisions and it would seem perfectly logical that he should be able to change schools and look out for his best interest without a coach being all bent out of shape about it. Really if we were really going to prepare kids for the real world they should be able to transfer colleges whenever they darn feel like it just like most people can change jobs when they feel like it. That would prepare them for the real world. NOw if they want to transfer schools in most situations they have to sit out a year or semester which isn't at all the way the real world works. When I change jobs I go to work tomorrow and do not have to serve some arbitrary penalty set by some big bureaucracy.
I don't know how to post that article but it is under omaha.com and sports then mavs central.

Mavericks#1
02-26-2005, 08:23 PM
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=38&u_sid=1346370



Rabbitt fans,


I thought one thing that Moeller said was very interesting. He said that it was about playing for something at the end of the season. It seems to me that SDSU is more about beating their chest about being D1 and forgot about winning and more importantly playing for something. SDSU's season ends tonite and UNO's is just beggining. You can have D1 and I will stick to worrying about winning.


Mavs #1

CatchEmAll
02-26-2005, 08:24 PM
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=528&u_xid=429&u_sid=1346370

Mildly edited for length. From the Omaha paper.

MANKATO, Minn. - Minnesota State-Mankato is playing for a share of the North Central Conference championship and a spot in the NCAA Division II national tournament.

South Dakota State is 9-18 and playing out the string in its first season in Division I.

That is why Andy Moeller transferred from SDSU to MSU for his senior season, and even though it has caused tension between his current and former schools, he's glad he did it.

"It's all about playing for something at the end of the year," Moeller said. "This is my fifth year as part of the NCC, and it's been a great experience. I didn't want to miss out on it."

Moeller, a 6-foot-1 guard from LeClaire, Iowa, reunited in Mankato with Coach Matt Margenthaler and former SDSU backcourt mate Austin Hansen, now an MSU assistant. Margenthaler is a former SDSU assistant and was the first to offer Moeller a scholarship as a high school player.

Margenthaler said he hasn't spoken with SDSU Coach Scott Nagy since Moeller transferred, and SDSU has struggled mightily in its first year in Division I.

The Jackrabbits, the NCC's best program during the past five years, likely wouldn't have finished better than sixth this year without Moeller - clearly their best player.

"Some people say I probably shouldn't have taken him, but if I didn't, then someone else would have," Margenthaler said. "If he had wanted to go when I first took this job, I wouldn't have done it. But when the university changed divisions, then everything changes."

Moeller said he doesn't know what he would have done if Margenthaler had turned him down last spring.

"It was a tough thing to do, because I have nothing but a lot of respect for Coach (Scott) Nagy and the program he runs over there," Moeller said. "But I had to be honest with him and told him how I felt."

Moeller is one of those feisty, competitive guards that the NCC's best teams have. He seems to be at his best in big games, like in last year's regional tournament, when he single-handedly kept SDSU in the game against top-ranked Metro State (Colo.).

"He's brought an intensity level and a winning attitude that we need on our basketball team," Margenthaler said. "And every time we've needed him in big games, he's shown up. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do (today), because on a stage like this, he shines."

After averaging 17.6 points per game last year at SDSU, Moeller has blended into an offensive attack that includes All-American Jamel Staten and sharpshooter Luke Anderson. Moeller averages just 12.0 points, but is part of the league's best trio of offensive players.

"He's a solid competitor," said UNO guard Calvin Kapels, who will shadow Moeller today. "He's a senior, this is his last (home) game, and he wants to go out a winner."

SDSUFAN
02-26-2005, 08:31 PM
Wow if Andy Moeller had stayed at SDSU we would be in the NIT. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mavericks#1
02-26-2005, 08:36 PM
Mavs Outlast MSU in 2 Overtimes
Win Gives UNO Outright NCC Title

MANKATO, MINN. -- Levy Jones' tip-in just before the buzzer gave the Mavericks a 90-88 double-overtime victory over Minnesota State Saturday, securing the second straight regular season North Central Conference title for UNO.

The Mavs will host the NCC's Wells Fargo Finals semifinal and championship games in Omaha March 4-5. UNO, ranked No. 11 in NCAA II, is 23-4 overall and finished the regular season in the NCC at 9-3. No. 14 MSU is 21-6 and 7-5 before hosting a first-round tournament game Tuesday.

Ryan Curtis scored 17 of his UNO-leading 25 points in overtime, hitting all six of his shots and five of six from the free throw line. Jones, who also sent the game into overtime with a pair of free throws late in regulation, finished with 14 points, Abdul Mills had 12, Andre Tarpley 11 and Calvin Kapels 10.

After ending regulation knotted at 65, Curtis scored nine of the Mavericks' 10 points in the first five-minute session. MSU held a 75-73 lead when UNO's Mills missed a shot. MSU guard Andy Moeller rebounded, but fell down and was called for traveling. Curtis tied the game with a two-handed slam off the inbounds pass with six seconds left to tie at 75.

UNO never trailed in the second overtime, building an 88-82 lead as Curtis scored eight points. But MSU tied the game on three-pointers by Luke Anderson in the final minute, the last one coming with seven seconds remaining.

Jones tipped in a miss by Kapels with under a second left to end the game and give UNO its second win over Minnesota State in a week.

UNO led by as many as 13 points the first half before MSU cut the margin to 35-30 at halftime on Anderson's three-pointer with six seconds remaining.

The Mavericks led most of the way the second half before MSU took its first lead since early in the game on Jamel Staten's three-pointer with 4:25 to play, 58-56.

UNO came back to take a 61-60 lead with 2:10 to go on Tarpley's two free shots. Staten and Tarpley then traded layups before Moeller's three-pointer gave MSU a 65-63 lead with 1:26 to play. Jones tied the game at 65 when he hit two free throws with 47 seconds remaining.

Moeller led MSU with 24 points and nine rebounds, while connecting on four of nine from behind the arc. Anderson added 21 points, also hitting four three-point shots. As a team, MSU hit 12 of 28 three-point shots.

The Mavericks now have four NCC titles. The previous championships were in 1979 and 1984. Last year, UNO won both the regular season and the post-season tournament titles.

JackTwice
02-26-2005, 08:37 PM
I had heard from a friend close to some players that Andy said he would have stayed this year if Matt Jones was able to play but minus that there is nothing else here. Personally I won't blame him. It is about playing for something at the end of the year and this year there was nothing for him to play for.

To claim this move is about beating our chests and saying we are DI is at best diluted. This season that is all we have. Next year, with 4 of 5 conference football games at home winning the conference is not out of the question. The men and women's basketball team will be NIT eligible and it only gets better from there.

So Mav, Jake and all you USD guys out there, yeah, this year all we might have is beating our chests but it can only get better for us. What do you have? A new conference? Trips to Washington in all sports? The same old same old can be comfortable but at some point its going to get boring. Looks like for you that happens sooner than later.

Mavericks#1
02-26-2005, 08:50 PM
Jack Twice,


Here is what we have.


4 conference championships in Football, Mens basketball, soccer, swimming and a great chance at back to back national titles in Wrestling. My question is what do you have!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mavs #1

stusdsu
02-26-2005, 10:21 PM
I personally think there is a thing called loyalty. There is more to life than winning championships. It is about challenging yourself to be better and win with your teammates. Sacraficing a personal goal to help lay a foundation for the future of a team or program is what builds true character. I would like to thank those that stuck around and faced the challenge. Great job to all the SDSU athletes that put their team above themselves.

Mavericks#1
02-26-2005, 10:33 PM
There is more to life than winning championships. It is about challenging yourself to be better and win with your teammates.




Thats sounds like some BS that you would tell a YMCA rec league team. Trust me it is about winning championships, believing anything else is just kidding yourself.

stusdsu
02-26-2005, 10:58 PM
Winning is everything, but all you are talking about are medals and trophies. Does a person really need a symbol to proclaim themselves a winner? Do people work their tails off for something they can show off to their friends? True competitors don't play for awards they play to win.

SDSUFAN
02-27-2005, 05:52 AM
Winning is everything, but all you are talking about are medals and trophies. Does a person really need a symbol to proclaim themselves a winner? Do people work their tails off for something they can show off to their friends? True competitors don't play for awards they play to win.

AMEN I could not have said it better. I dont expect to see either of the Mavericks on our schedule any time soon. Not even the Mankato kind. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mavericks#1
02-27-2005, 07:45 AM
Winning is everything, but all you are talking about are medals and trophies. Does a person really need a symbol to proclaim themselves a winner? Do people work their tails off for something they can show off to their friends? True competitors don't play for awards they play to win.





These comments sounds like they are coming from a school that isn't winning very much. When you are winning championships people don't write comments like the one above.



Mavs #1

bigjake
02-27-2005, 08:19 AM
stusdsu, There has to be loyalty on both sides. The players had no input on whether they wanted to go d1 and who can blame people for bailing out when it was something they didn't sign up for in the first place.
But the thing I find most disturbing is that coach nagy sacrificed this year and made those people who did show loyalty get their brains beat out by holding out the redshirts that people on this site continually say are really good. If he held players out who could have helped him this year - that is a shame to the current players. MOre likely we are just hearing more unrealistic and unbridled optimism about these redshirts and in all probability they weren't ready to contribute. I mean why not play them now if they are ready - they still have 3 more years after this. It seems like coach nagy is rather dejected about this season as are the fans and if you could have been better and chose not to be it is an odd choice. Most likely the redshirts are NOT ready for prime time.

89rabbit
02-27-2005, 08:29 AM
Guys, how many times are we going to go down this road? Some (players and schools) have chosen to continue to compete at the D-II level. I and many others have wished them well. Others, have chosen to take it to the next level. To compete at a higher level. Canít you just wish us well? After all we donít even compete at the same level anymore. Why does taking shoots at SDSU make you feel better? Have some self-respect.

Go State! ;D


P.S. Congrats on your NCC title.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-27-2005, 10:50 AM
"Congrats on your NCC title"

Since your D2... nobody will know, or care about it. I know I don't.

OK_Jackrabbit
02-27-2005, 12:08 PM
Congrats to UNO. I'll be rooting for the Mavs from here on out. They have a good thing going there in DII. The NCC is lucky to have them or that would be a really shaky conference.

Regarding all the bluster about 'playing for something,' etc. Can we back up a little and keep in mind that this isn't about Andy Moeller or any single player? SDSU athletics is bigger than one year or one player. UNO has a bright future in DII athletics and I'm happy for them. SDSU is building something in DI. Can we just accept both of those things and move on? Change is just a part of life. Our move to DI doesn't reflect poorly on UNO, which is a fine school with excellent athletics. And their success in DII has no relevance to SDSU's efforts to build something in DI.

jack100
02-27-2005, 12:29 PM
But the thing I find most disturbing is that coach nagy sacrificed this year and made those people who did show loyalty get their brains beat out by holding out the redshirts that people on this site continually say are really good. If he held players out who could have helped him this year - that is a shame to the current players. MOre likely we are just hearing more unrealistic and unbridled optimism about these redshirts and in all probability they weren't ready to contribute. I mean why not play them now if they are ready - they still have 3 more years after this. It seems like coach nagy is rather dejected about this season as are the fans and if you could have been better and chose not to be it is an odd choice. Most likely the redshirts are NOT ready for prime time.

I cannot count the number of times you and your buddies have made incorrect or uninformed comments. Do you have any idea what you are talking about or do you make it up as you go along?

Here's a question for you - when is SDSU's basketball team eligible for the NCAA postseason tournament? Answer - 2008-2009 season. Another question for you - what will be Cadwell's and Gilbert's eligibility be for that season? Answer - because they redshirted this year - they will be seniors for the 2008-09 season. These players came to SDSU because they wanted a chance at the big dance their final year. It is very unlikely that these players would have even come to SDSU if that chance did not exist.

After the game last night - Nagy said nothing against the senior class but as of tomorrow that the SDSU's team already has more talent than this year. He went on to say - the fans here got a good look at what the future's gonna be like.

You and your UNO buddies comments are ridiculous. You know nothing about the situation and are either too stupid or ignorant to learn more. I could make comments about UNO's recruiting but I would not know what was saying. This is a pattern with you guys and am sick of it. It is fine to be critical of SDSU - at least have your facts in order before you speak.

I am trying to figure out your motivation and desire to have SDSU fail. The only thing that keeps coming back to me is that when SDSU was in the NCC - no one at SDSU could have cared less about UNO and what they were doing. Maybe the fans at UNO thought SDSU was dissing them and giving them no respect. If that is the case, I will personally mail apology letters to all of these UNO fans that felt dissed. At least I will only have to mail out 3 letters - very few at UNO care about their athletic program much less SDSU's.

OK_Jackrabbit
02-27-2005, 01:05 PM
But the thing I find most disturbing is that coach nagy sacrificed this year and made those people who did show loyalty get their brains beat out by holding out the redshirts that people on this site continually say are really good. If he held players out who could have helped him this year - that is a shame to the current players.
Oh, please. The university doesn't owe those players anything beyond putting them in a position to compete and giving them the opportunity to earn a degree. As I recall, these are student athletes. Pro athletes may get to pressure their organizations to pay or play certain players and set conditions for their participation. Student athletes don't have that right, nor should they have that expectation. Nobody owes them anything beyond an education and opportunity to compete, and they don't get to set the conditions of their educational or intercollegiate athletics experience. To suggest that they got shorted because Nagy redshirted other student athletes really plays into the worst ideas of what athletics is or should be. Ultimately, this is about education... something some people, in their zeal to win at all costs, seem to forget.

bigjake
03-01-2005, 07:35 AM
Another thing that could have happened to coach nagy this year is that he possibly underestimated the talent necessary to compete successfully in d1. I suspect there is a learning curve for coaches to figure out the kind of talent they need and the kind of talent they can get in order to be successful. I am a Husker fan and Barry Collier is on the fence here bc he has consistently underestimated the kind of players you need to compete in the BIg 12. He has been recruiting players that you can win with at Butler but not in the Big 12 and maybe that is happening and will happen to coach nagy. It will be interesting to watch bc there is no doubt coach nagy knew what it took to win in d2 but d1 is a whole new ball game where the stakes are much higher.
Okla_jackrabbit - I agree in theory. with your eloquent assessment of what players can expect from their univ. But in reality if I was a player left behind trying to compete this year I would be rather angry about busting my rear while help is right on the end of the bench that is not being used.
Jack100 - A lot of people around here do care about UNO. We were 3rd nationally last year in hockey attendance and we draw well for fb and bb get a 2k a game for league games. While it is not what it should be IMHO it is pretty good and a lot of people do care around here.

OK_Jackrabbit
03-01-2005, 12:21 PM
But in reality if I was a player left behind trying to compete this year I would be rather angry about busting my rear while help is right on the end of the bench that is not being used.
Maybe so. I never played college basketball, so I really don't know what I would think in that situation. I would hope that I would do my best with what I had, knowing that I was lucky to be playing at all and getting an education at the same time. But these are 18- to 22-year-olds and that sort of perspective might not always be present.

gojacksgo
03-01-2005, 01:17 PM
Those senior guards may not be starting if SDSU didn't redshirt their freshmen. Maybe they look at it as they are getting playing time, and the team wouldn't have been all that great even with those guys, so why waste a year of eligibility. They may be happy that they got as much playing time as they did. It's not like they were short players at the beginning of the year....they fielded a full team, so some players had to either be cut or given a redshirt.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
03-01-2005, 01:34 PM
UNO has redshirted plenty of players over the years, Its the way college basketball is played, Fat Jake is just being a antagonist as usual. I wish Holdren had been redshirted also.

gojacksgo
03-01-2005, 01:38 PM
I kind of wish he would have been too, but just think of how much worse this team would have been...With him, we got a few wins at least - I'm not sure if SDSU would have won a game without him. If they would have won 2 or 3 games this year, that could have hurt recruiting badly.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
03-01-2005, 01:53 PM
gojacksgo,
you definetly have a point, we definetly would have lost more games(but not all of them), and it is possible that recruiting could be effected but not likely-IMO. I looked at every game this season almost as a scrimmage to gain experience for the future. Next year the games count. Holdren will be a great player redshirt or not!!

JACKGUYII
03-01-2005, 02:13 PM
Good players want to be part of good teams but they also want plenty of playing time. The jacks can offer recruits an opportunity to come in a play immediately.

CatchEmAll
03-01-2005, 02:21 PM
I'll take a different approach to the direction this has gone. A claim (of sorts) was made that Nagy owed it to his seniors to put the best players on the court even if that meant not redshirting some players. What about the redshirts though? Is it fair to play them when, 1. this was admitidly a down year, 2. there was no guarantee of playing time, and 3. by playing this year they would not have the opportunity to make the NCAA tournament (not guaranteed, but atleast have that as a possible outcome). The redshirts should get the same consideration as the seniors when it comes to looking at the big picture. Personally, my redshirt was pulled after two games my freshman year (football). I played mostly special teams and had limited time with the offense. Was this fair to me, hell no because I basically lost a year of eligibility. After the season was I pissed, yes. In hind-sight did it really cost me that much, no. I got my degree which is the whole point of college athletics at this level. If any of our seniors had NBA scouts drooling over them then maybe putting the best players on the court regardless of class (freshman, soph, etc.) would have been more necessary. At this point of their careers these seniors have experienced more than most and knew going in to the year that this would be a tough one. The survived and will all hopefully get their degree and have successful lives after SDSU. They will have fond memories, but 20 years from now I doubt they will be bitter that Nagy redshirted a few good freshmen.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
03-01-2005, 03:06 PM
Cant say it much better than that... From someone who knows...

twism
03-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Very well put Catchem All.

SDSUFAN
03-01-2005, 05:48 PM
Another thing that could have happened to coach nagy this year is that he possibly underestimated the talent necessary to compete successfully in d1. I suspect there is a learning curve for coaches to figure out the kind of talent they need and the kind of talent they can get in order to be successful. I am a Husker fan and Barry Collier is on the fence here bc he has consistently underestimated the kind of players you need to compete in the BIg 12. He has been recruiting players that you can win with at Butler but not in the Big 12 and maybe that is happening and will happen to coach nagy. It will be interesting to watch bc there is no doubt coach nagy knew what it took to win in d2 but d1 is a whole new ball game where the stakes are much higher.
Okla_jackrabbit - I agree in theory. with your eloquent assessment of what players can expect from their univ. But in reality if I was a player left behind trying to compete this year I would be rather angry about busting my rear while help is right on the end of the bench that is not being used.
Jack100 - A lot of people around here do care about UNO. We were 3rd nationally last year in hockey attendance and we draw well for fb and bb get a 2k a game for league games. While it is not what it should be IMHO it is pretty good and a lot of people do care around here.

This just shows how little Big Jake knows about Scott Nagy. Coach Nagy did his grad work at U OF Illinois and was a grad assistant under Lou Hensen long time Illinois coach and Big 10 legend. Plus on the staff was Scott's father Dick Nagy. The head assistant at Illionis at that time was Jimmie Collins, now head coach at U of ILLinios Chicago, which the Jacks played this year. So not for a second would Coach under-estimate D1 opponents, he knows as much if not more than UNO's McKinna.

In fact Scott has contacts with a number of D1 coaches so there is no way he could have done anything to correct this situation. Moeller leaves and there was no big discussion when he was released from his letter of intent from what I have heard. Matt Jones decided to give up basketball for health reasons so, I think Coach made the best decisions he could make. Steve Holdren and McKennize Casey appeared to be able to play and they were played.

There is one other thing Big Jake does not know either otherwise he would have kept his pie hole shut, and that is Nagy has a weekly meeting individually with each player and they discuss everything that is going on in their lives. He no doubt gave each new freshman an option of playing or red shirting. Casey was a walk on so I can see him grabbing the opportunity to play this year but not sure about Holdren. With his mono bout, he may get his red shirt year in too and be eligible for the big dance season in 2008-09. Of course he will never get the opportunity to play in that dump called Sapp Fieldhouse. ;D
UNO thats a card game ;D ;D ;D ;D

gojacksgo
03-01-2005, 06:25 PM
I thought you could only play in 25% of the games in order to get your red shirt. I may be wrong, but Holdren played much more than that if that is true. You are right though. He didn't underestimate the players ability this year. His 2 best players didn't play this year - I just want to say I don't mind that Moeller left. He did what he thought was best for him, but Nagy did what was best for SDSU - redshirted players that maybe weren't quite ready to play yet. No harm in that.

filbert
03-01-2005, 08:06 PM
This just shows how little Big Jake knows about Scott Nagy. Coach Nagy did his grad work at U OF Illinois and was a grad assistant under Lou Hensen long time Illinois coach and Big 10 legend. Plus on the staff was Scott's father Dick Nagy. The head assistant at Illionis at that time was Jimmie Collins, now head coach at U of ILLinios Chicago, which the Jacks played this year. So not for a second would Coach under-estimate D1 opponents, he knows as much if not more than UNO's McKinna.

In fact Scott has contacts with a number of D1 coaches so there is no way he could have done anything to correct this situation. Moeller leaves and there was no big discussion when he was released from his letter of intent from what I have heard. Matt Jones decided to give up basketball for health reasons so, I think Coach made the best decisions he could make. Steve Holdren and McKennize Casey appeared to be able to play and they were played.

There is one other thing Big Jake does not know either otherwise he would have kept his pie hole shut, and that is Nagy has a weekly meeting individually with each player and they discuss everything that is going on in their lives. He no doubt gave each new freshman an option of playing or red shirting. Casey was a walk on so I can see him grabbing the opportunity to play this year but not sure about Holdren. With his mono bout, he may get his red shirt year in too and be eligible for the big dance season in 2008-09. Of course he will never get the opportunity to play in that dump called Sapp Fieldhouse. ;D
UNO thats a card game ;D ;D ;D ;D


You got to it before I did, SDSUFAN. Nagy's got a pretty good D-I pedigree.

He grew up in Champaign, the son of a major college assistant coach. I'm guessing he knows more about big time college basketball than all 300+ of us on this board combined.