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89rabbit
03-28-2005, 10:09 AM
Some bad news coming out of Vermillion about their athletic department. Here are highlights (or should I say lowlights) from a Volante story:

http://www.volanteonline.com/news/2005/03/23/Sports/Deficit.Focus.Of.Proposal-901208.shtml

Deficit focus of proposal

USD faces 'chronic funding issue'

By Jeremy Hoeck
Published: Wednesday, March 23, 2005

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper468/stills/7xevb900.jpg
USD Athletic Director Joel Nielsen

In what administrators are calling a "chronic funding issue," the USD athletic department has a budget deficit that is reported to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range.

Athletic Director Joel Nielsen, Assistant Athletic Director Jeanette Hubert and Vice President of Finance and Administration Greg Redlin are working together to come up with solutions to remedy the deficit.

"We are all working together to identify ways to cover the increases in our expenses," Nielsen said. "We are also working with a 'funding model' to stop the systemic problem."

During each athletic year, there are anticipated increases in the fixed expenses of the department, including scholarship fluctuations, operating expenses, as well as travel and inflationary increases.

The three administrators are in the process of coming up with proposals that include possible ways to cover the debt and are planning to finish within the next few weeks. From there, they will give the proposals to USD President Jim Abbott with some recommendation of one that they think will work the best.

"In each proposal, we will include some adjustments to the way we do business," Nielsen said. "With any funding model, you have to make assumptions and you just do your best to anticipate what might happen in the future. It's a complicated and challenging job." . . .

Unlike last spring's decision, Nielsen said that cutting another program is likely out of the question despite the desparate times of the department.

"When we go into this process, we put everything on the table," Nielsen said. "One of the first things we address is not reducing opportunities. We will only make adjustments in our program as a last resort. That is a last resort option for us." . . .



The program cuts may not be over.

filbert
03-28-2005, 10:45 AM
This Can't Be Fun.

OK_Jackrabbit
03-28-2005, 11:37 AM
My favorite quote from the full story:

"For the fiscal year of 2005, it was reported that the operating budget for USD's athletic department was $2,823,749. However, Redlin and his associates have not calculated the exact deficit."

They're working on it, he says... and the reporter accepts that as an answer? I'm no accountant, but I'm guessing if they wanted to they could narrow it down closer than "more than six figures".

So it could be $100,001 or it could be $999,999.

BHSSDSUFAN
03-28-2005, 12:47 PM
Got to be a little hard to swallow for all of those "Yote" fans!!!!!

89rabbit
03-28-2005, 02:00 PM
More news from Vermillion:

http://www.volanteonline.com/news/2005/03/23/Sports/Allen.Resignes-902565.shtml

ALLEN RESIGNES
By Jeremy Hoeck
Published: Wednesday, March 23, 2005


After 14 years as head coach of the USD swimming and diving program, Ron Allen said on Wednesday that he is resigning.

A formal announcement by the university is expected by next week.

"I decided this yesterday, and I told them (the team) that I would be resigning," Allen said. . . .

Allen's resignation came the same day "The Volante" learned the athletic department will be reducing the number of scholarships for the men's swimming and diving team. Scholarships for the women's team will remain the same. The decision comes as a result of the department's internal look at the budget deficit. . . .

jackmd
03-28-2005, 02:22 PM
Lets see the state legislature bail them out of this one.
I don't wish ill will upon USD but you have to wonder how this was allowed to happen.

Cutting scholarships, eliminating opportunities, reducing coaches salaries, etc... Sounds about right for DII. No wonder the NSIC has most of its interest in the U of Mary.

Lastly, anyone know what the numbers will look like for our athletic dept this year? I suspect there was a slight drop off from previous years. Maybe even a deficit?

JBNJBQ
03-28-2005, 03:52 PM
Not to worry!

Their new "state of the art" scoreboard will fill the stands and allow them to recruit any athlete they desire in a five state area. That was their plan.

Their problem, as I see it, is their marketing strategy. They were relying a little too heavily on their "HATE STATE" t-shirt sales which fell off sharply when we moved up. The "HATE AUGGIE" sales were dismal. The "HATE UND" shirts just didn't catch on. The "HATE MOUNT MARTY" shirts were bought just as a curiousity. Their "HATE PRESENTATION" sales had to be called off when the nuns got ticked off and formed a picket line at the game in Vermillion. A letter was written to the Pope and Pres. Abbot stopped all sales of hate shirts.

They don't know how they will make up the revenue without cutting another sport.


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


JBNJBQ

Rabbitlivinginverm
03-28-2005, 07:31 PM
[quote author=jackmd link=board=Smack;num=1112033382;start=0#5 date=03/28/05 at 15:22:08] Sounds about right for DII. quote]

I think has to do more with the past leaders (and maybe some current ones as well) than it does with being D2. Seems to me that Joel Nielson is taking care of some buisiness that should have been taken care of long ago.

sports_buff
03-29-2005, 05:33 AM
You guys spend a lot of time worrying about USD and talking about USD for some guys who don't care about USD. In fact 89 even goes on line to read the Volante, I don't even do that and I'm a USD grad. And he accused me of having an unhealthy fascination. ::)

89rabbit
03-29-2005, 05:52 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, I didn't find the story. It came up as part of a discussion on why USD didn't move up to D-I on another board. I posted it here because I am sure this fiasco is going to cost the good people of South Dakota more tax money (Just like the Grain Bin's/Dakota Dome Roof and the Med. School). Maybe USD would be more cost effective if they moved down to the GPAC I could see a great rivalry with USF and Mornigside, maybe even Dana and Northwestern. It really is a nice geographic fit for USD.

http://www.gpacsports.com/

http://www.gpacsports.com/Logos/GPACLOGONewPages4.gif

http://www.gpacsports.com/Logos/GPACLogoBar4.jpg

http://www.usd.edu/urelations/logos/primaryUSmall.gif

Look even the logo would fit right in. I know this is going to tick some of you Yote fans off, but I am just trying to help with what USD administrators called a 'chronic funding issue', and also save the tax payers of South Dakota some of their hard earned money. Don't let your pride get in the way, it is ok that you can't keep up with the best University in the state, no one expects you to. ;)

Go State, South Dakota's only D-I University! ;D


P.S. Sports_Buff says he doesn't read the Volante, that doesn't surprise me. Lack of interest and financial support is what got USD into the mess in the first place. It is also the reason why they don't have their own fan board. :o

Texas_Jacks_Fan
03-29-2005, 06:31 AM
Sports_Buff,
Your the one that has 154 posts on a SDSU fan board. I think your the one with the unhealthy fasination with SDSU. Instead of posting here all of the time get a second job and donate it all to the usd athletic. dept.
they need the help.
TJF

sports_buff
03-29-2005, 06:48 AM
My client has a message:
Tell 89 Rabbitt that I said that it appears that they would fit into the GPAC as well. Morningside 70 SDSU 62.
They are talking about the Yotes financial problems when they should be concerned about their own. Drawing 1,000 people to basketball games isn't going to pay alot of bills. Tell SDSU fan that BIG JAKE and myself are not the same people. One of those computers nerds should be able to figure that out.


Mavs #1

Speaking of rivalries with Morningise, it looks like you guys already have one going. I hope you get another crack at them next year.

Texas Jack, I was already accused of having an unhealthy fascination. I said I am interested in the move, I'm interested why State would do it, I'm interested in how a D-I team can get dominated by an NAIA team. I've never denied that. What I was saying was, you people quit denying your interest in USD. It's gotten to the point where you are posting more about USD than you are SDSU. Thats fine, but don't deny your interest, you aren't fooling anyone.
It does appear that USD has funding issues right now in the athletic dept. which makes me glad that Nielsen is taking steps to correct it. Our last A.D. would have done something stupid like add another expensive sport when we were having trouble paying for the ones we already have. Nielsen may not be making the popular decisions, but he's making the necessary decisions.

89rabbit
03-29-2005, 07:16 AM
Sports_Buff,

How sad that you need Maverick #1 to run smack for you. I would be embarrassed if I were you. :-[ :'(

Next this thread is about USD and it's inability to fund a NCAA D-II program. I am not saying you should join the GPAC from a completive ness standpoint only a financial one. Given some time, I am sure USD football can go head to head with USF. ;)

Finally when you are right you are right. I would have been foolish for USD to try and maintain a NCAA D-II baseball team when even after they got rid of it they still can't make ends meet.

There are two ways for USD to get out of this mess. They could grow their revenue stream or they can cut expeses. As JBNJBQ pointed out earlier it is hard to grow revenue when the "Hate State" marketing plan that USD has operated under for years is no longer viable (I am now starting to understand why those who care about USD are sooooo upset with our decision to move forward). So perhaps the slash and burn approach is the best if USD wants to remain as a NCAA D-II school. Best of luck to USD.

Sports_Buff in the spirit of helping USD out, here is a link to Monster to help you get that second job so you can help support USD athletics. Sorry you won't have as much time to keep up with SDSU athletics. Stop back from time to time and see how the "big dogs" are doing. ;)

http://www.monster.com/

Go State! ;D

sports_buff
03-29-2005, 07:33 AM
Sports_Buff,

How sad that you need Maverick #1 to run smack for you. I would be embarrassed if I were you. :-[ :'(

Go State! ;D

Just because Mav #1 has a point he wants to make doesn't mean I need him to run smack for me. You have about 100 other guys here to run your smack for you, is that embarrassing for you? Mav has points he would like to make, but unfortuanately he can't do it himself.

Shouldn't you guys be worried about finding a conference instead of USD's financial situation.

I bet State's financial situation isn't that great either, but their newspaper probably isn't allowed to talk about it.

joeybrownerHOF
03-29-2005, 07:34 AM
Yes, the USD athletic dept. is dealing with some serious issues right now. However, the current AD is cleaning up the mess of others. The belief that SD will bail out USD athletic dept though is unfounded. Athletic funding comes directly from the student General Activity Fee. The problem with USD is that their GAF fee is one of the lowest among the university's in the state system (SDSU generates about $50 more per student per semester than USD....the funny thing is SDSM&T and DSU have the higest GAF fee) The allocation of these funds (athletics, student orgs, etc) is determined by the University and students. USD again is among lowest allocation of GAF to athletics. The USD administration will have to change this to help shore up the budget. The SDBOR has strict policy against SD taxpayers money to aid collegiate athletics. Hopefully Nielson will get this mess straightened out. Anyone with more specific information on how this works would be appreciated. Enough about USD from me.

89rabbit
03-29-2005, 07:47 AM


I bet State's financial situation isn't that great either, but their newspaper probably isn't allowed to talk about it.


The facts don't support your premise.

1. SDSU bought our new scoreboards and we will receive the revenues that they generate. Daktronics gave USD their scoreboards, but Daktronics will benefit from the revenues that they generate.

2. SDSU is adding scholarships (both men's and women's). USD is cutting scholarships.

3. SDSU is adding athletic opportunities (Women's Equestrian). USD is cutting athletic opportunities (Men's Baseball).

4. USD has a three year "plan" to invest $1.126 Million dollars in it's athletic programs to get compliant with Title IX. SDSU had a single donor give more then double that ammount to the athletic department last year ($2.4 Million).

Now quite wasting time, and go get that resume online your Alma Mater needs you. ;)

Go State! ;D

sports_buff
03-29-2005, 10:25 AM
It looks like the difference in our fundraising is that you happened to have one very rich donor.
Just because you are spending money like mad does not mean that your financial situation is a good one, it could just mean that you are spending beyond your means.
I hope your financial situation is as good as you think it is, because you are going to need a lot of money traveling all over the place trying to find games to play.

89rabbit
03-29-2005, 10:43 AM
Our second largest donor last year pledged $1.0 million dollars, almost as much as your schools 3 year plan. I suppose if you keep stripping away our top donors at some point SDSU's and USD's Alumni and Friends support would be the same, but alas for you those big donors do count in the real world. That is why SDSU can make the jump to D-I and USD is struggling to maintain a viable D-II program.

All smack aside I do agree with Rabbitlivinginverm and joeybrownerHOF that USD's current AD is cleaning up someone else's mess. However the facts remain that USD has a mess and we do not.

Go State! ;D





P.S. I believe it was Mike_H who posted earlier that our revenue were actually up for the year. Don't forget we get paid guarantees to play teams like Marquette, Colorado, etc.

jackrabbit1979
03-29-2005, 02:22 PM
Yes, the USD athletic dept. is dealing with some serious issues right now. However, the current AD is cleaning up the mess of others. The belief that SD will bail out USD athletic dept though is unfounded. Athletic funding comes directly from the student General Activity Fee. The problem with USD is that their GAF fee is one of the lowest among the university's in the state system (SDSU generates about $50 more per student per semester than USD....the funny thing is SDSM&T and DSU have the higest GAF fee) The allocation of these funds (athletics, student orgs, etc) is determined by the University and students. USD again is among lowest allocation of GAF to athletics. The USD administration will have to change this to help shore up the budget. The SDBOR has strict policy against SD taxpayers money to aid collegiate athletics. Hopefully Nielson will get this mess straightened out. Anyone with more specific information on how this works would be appreciated. Enough about USD from me.




Actually SDSU received about $50 more per year not per semester than USD in the general activity fee from every student. You are correct in saying that these fees go to support everything from Student Groups and Activities (which SDSU has more of), health services for students, Intramurals, Varsity Athletics etc. It looks as if USD will be charging an extra $5 bucks per credit per student for the GAF next year in order to pay for their new student union (which SDSU already has). For the average student that will be an extra 160 bucks a year putting them in the range with SDSMT and DSU.

By the way i believe DSU's is higher because every student that attends is given a state of the art laptop to use during their tenure at the University, i may be wrong about if their increased student fees pay for that. ???

Crashola
03-29-2005, 02:49 PM
This may be a stupid question, but hasn't USD recently been touting the size of its Foundation endowment? Why doesn't the Foundation step in and cure the problem? Are they prohibited by their charter/bylaws, etc. from funding athletics?

gojacksgo
03-29-2005, 02:58 PM
DSU still has to pay to rent the laptop's still, so I don't think that is the reason for the high student fees. I think the students still have to pay about $250 a semester. It's something close to that.

joeybrownerHOF
03-29-2005, 03:43 PM
This may be a stupid question, but hasn't USD recently been touting the size of its Foundation endowment? Why doesn't the Foundation step in and cure the problem? Are they prohibited by their charter/bylaws, etc. from funding athletics?

Campaign SD was set up to raise money for faculty recruitment, academic scholarships, new b-school and med school, improvements to slagle and old armory. Basically the same thing State did in 94 with their 50M campaign. The U is basically a few years behind State on general improvements to campus and whatnot...ie new student union, prez house,etc.... However, i do think the campaign SD did raise awareness for some donations that were earmarked to athletic program (obviously not enough), but those are not included in the campaign SD numbers. Like Nielson said, the U's problem is the current funding model that if not changed will continue no matter how much money is donated (unless the U is found to be the sole beneificary of Howard Huges estate)

SDSUFAN
03-29-2005, 06:31 PM
This may be a stupid question, but hasn't USD recently been touting the size of its Foundation endowment? Why doesn't the Foundation step in and cure the problem? Are they prohibited by their charter/bylaws, etc. from funding athletics?

Very good question. Supposely the USED Foundation raised 103 million this year. That is what their press releases said, but if you count bequests of living people, then you can count every bird in the bush. Since it is spring, there are a lot of birds in the bush ;). Since many people are not athletic oriented, their bequests are probably intended for other purposes. Heck if they are alive and breathing why should they part with their hard earned assets?

bigjake
03-30-2005, 10:45 AM
I was at the UNO-USD softball game yesterday and I was talking to a couple of other uno fans and we were lamenting the possible hard times that may come to UNO bc the arrival of the Omaha "Knights" minor league hockey team next year. A reasonable person would have to assume that they will hurt the Mav's hockey (our cash cow) attendance although most people tend to think they will hurt the omaha lancers more than uno. The thing that was neat though is that you can sit down at a uno game and people are refreshingly realistic about what the future holds versus a lot of the "pie in the sky" optimism that permeates this site.
Now I know this is a fan site and people are going to be often times overly optimistic but certain things just seem over the top. Just a couple of things that come to mind recently
1. 89 Rabbit's point about sdsu getting money from the new scoreboard. I am sure the board is beautiful but how much meaningful revenue can a school like that generate from a scoreboard. Now maybe you can get a lot of advertising revenue from those things in chapel hill or durham but in Brookings? I highly doubt it.
2. I hear lots of stuff regarding this 20 million capital campaign but yet I read nothing about how many actual dollars are in the bank right NOW. I would be curious to find out. Even if you get 20 million in an endowment that will generate about 1 million at 5percent which just doesn't seem like enough revenue to succeed in D1.
3. Finally I read this site a lot and hear all the bubbling optimism but yet when I see attendance listed it just doesn't seem like your students/alumni are yet on board to the level that is needed to be successful. If you don't start drawing a lot of people soon to your games your admin may be forced to play 2/3 of your bb games out of town to get the good revenues needed to fund your move.
So yes USD is having some problems and it looks uno will be having some future funding problems but a reasonable person would have to assume that the bean counters up in brookings are plenty worried about the fiscal situation up there, too
*** You have claimed I am jealous of your situation. I AM jealous of your ability to play d1aa fb. I would love to play d1aa fb if the d1 stuff didn't come with it. I am also jealous of that marching band you have. Easily the equivalent of Lincoln. But I am NOT jealous of one other thing about sdsu and your situation

CatchEmAll
03-30-2005, 11:42 AM
The thing that was neat though is that you can sit down at a uno game and people are refreshingly realistic about what the future holds versus a lot of the "pie in the sky" optimism that permeates this site.
Now I know this is a fan site and people are going to be often times overly optimistic but certain things just seem over the top. Just a couple of things that come to mind recently
1. 89 Rabbit's point about sdsu getting money from the new scoreboard. I am sure the board is beautiful but how much meaningful revenue can a school like that generate from a scoreboard. Now maybe you can get a lot of advertising revenue from those things in chapel hill or durham but in Brookings? I highly doubt it.
2. I hear lots of stuff regarding this 20 million capital campaign but yet I read nothing about how many actual dollars are in the bank right NOW. I would be curious to find out. Even if you get 20 million in an endowment that will generate about 1 million at 5percent which just doesn't seem like enough revenue to succeed in D1.
3. Finally I read this site a lot and hear all the bubbling optimism but yet when I see attendance listed it just doesn't seem like your students/alumni are yet on board to the level that is needed to be successful. If you don't start drawing a lot of people soon to your games your admin may be forced to play 2/3 of your bb games out of town to get the good revenues needed to fund your move.
So yes USD is having some problems and it looks uno will be having some future funding problems but a reasonable person would have to assume that the bean counters up in brookings are plenty worried about the fiscal situation up there, too


One thing to remember, and you do say it, this is a fan site and you are getting a very small perspective of opinions. And yes, at times it is very "pie in the sky".

Just to respond to a couple of your points:
Scoreboards - no clue how much revenue will be generated. And yes, new scoreboards in Chapel Hill would do better than Brookings, but part of the reason for the new boards was to replace the relics that currently exist. The revenue won't be great initially, but the thought is to grow that revenue over time.
The Endowment - your math is good. The reason for that $1 million a year from the endowment is to pay for scholarships and free up other money for operations and facilities. I don't remember what the $$$ to fully fund scholarships on an annual basis is, but I know $1 million a year would cover the current number and would cover a great majority of scholarship dollars in the future.
Attendance - the figures you look at are basketball. You have to consider that we have twice as many home basketball games as in the past. Someone who has more time should look at the total attendance from last year to this year for comparison. Again, the goal is to grow numbers over time, not to equal the last season of DII right off the bat. One year of off attendance does not dictate the next decade of numbers.

I will guarantee that the bean counters at SDSU are just as worried about the finances as they are at USD and UNO, and every other university that has athletics in the nation. There are very few athletic programs that are self sufficient. I would venture to guess that in all NCAA divisions there are less than 1% of athletic programs that operate in the black. So the problems at USD, UNO, or even SDSU are not unique, just more noticable in our fishbowl.

OK_Jackrabbit
03-30-2005, 12:12 PM
For informational purposes: A $1 million endowment currently produces between $35,000 and $45,000 in revenue annually. Thus, SDSU's planned $20 million goal, if it was all placed in an endowment, would produce between $700,000 and $900,000 in annual revenue that could be used for things like scholarships. Those are solid, conservative figures, and they're the ones we use here for planning purposes (since Mr. Gaylord gave us $22 million and required us to use what was left over after our new building went up for endowed professorships.)

Somebody give me $1 million to use for the next year and I'll test my math.

Oh, and athletics is a dicey proposition sometimes. OU, even with its ridiculously profitable athletics, somehow managed to lose money and had to borrow $12 million (interest-free) from the academic side of the university a few years back. The endowment is good policy, but you have to be prudent as well. So, no purchasing $1.2 million in new furniture for the athletic department offices like they did here at OU recently.... even though they haven't paid back their loan.

89rabbit
03-30-2005, 12:41 PM
1. 89 Rabbit's point about sdsu getting money from the new scoreboard. I am sure the board is beautiful but how much meaningful revenue can a school like that generate from a scoreboard.


Not sure, but enough that a "For Profit" Company like Daktronics is willing to "give" USD $2.0 million dollars worth of scoreboards in exchange for the revenue rights.

Will they generate enough income so that SDSU will do away with the Jackrabbits club, probably not. Will they generate more then Big Jake's job at McDonalds, probably so. ;)

Either way I am sure the University will be glad to take in whatever amount of money they contribute to the athletic budget. Is that too Pollyanna for you?

Go State! ;D


P.S. Jake, you might want to read this old thread from when USD got it's new scoreboards.

http://diaafootball.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=sdsuetc;action=display;num=108620783 1;start=

el_presidente
03-30-2005, 05:43 PM
A few things quick.

1. I took a tour at Daktronics today and our boards are going to be pretty nice. Nice boards generate nice revenue. Enough to pay for the scoreboards for starters. (I worked for Dak 2 summers ago) Campus is also going to be getting Dak message boards to promote activities. USD and DSU are also getting some message boards. However, ours are color. Theirs are red only. We would also like to get LCD TVs to put in the new union, however, that is more of a 3 to 5 year goal depending on the money.

2. I think the students will be on board for attendance next year. Having lots of home football games will be a good indicator of that. I think it will spill over to basketball and other sports. Other things will help with HPER athletics as well. Caldwell hall will be a much shorter walk then Berg/Bailey, Hansen, or Waneta. If promoted, attendance will be good. (We are also looking to bring back the Jack Fanatics from a few years ago)

3. As far as USD goes. They are spending 15 million on a new union that will be 72,000 square feet. We spent 9 million to renovate a union that will be 131,000 square feet.

4. Unrelated, but next year is SDSU's 125th Anniversary. Go Jacks

jackmd
03-31-2005, 07:25 AM
Too bad for the U. If Pat wasn't so into the "sauce", the hookers and the cocaine he might have been able to help bail his alma mater out. What a loser/coyote.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=598377

http://argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050331/COLUMNISTS04/503310346/1004

89rabbit
03-31-2005, 07:36 AM
That is too bad for Pat. I hope he can get his personal affairs into order, and get his life back on track.

jackmd
03-31-2005, 07:52 AM
That is too bad for Pat. I hope he can get his personal affairs into order, and get his life back on track.


Smack board!! There may be a better place to express your concerns for his personal affairs. Maybe a phone call or an e-mail.

A little light-hearted disdain for a USD alum shouldn't be taken with too much offense. I won't feel sorry for a guy who gives into urges such as alcohol and drug abuse and then sexually harasses co-workers. Maybe its a character issue for some, maybe others have a fear of conflict (I suspect this is the case). Call a spade a spade, life is a lot easier. Pat screwed up and he needs to fix it. Your pity won't help him one bit.

Try to laugh a little, even if its at the expense of another person.

Rabbitlivinginverm
03-31-2005, 08:04 AM
I know usd and the S.F. Canaries have been planning a Pat O'brien bobble head night for some time now. With the Canaries new management and their nitch for poking fun at news worthy sports situations (ie. Randy Moss afro night when there's a full moon and a special night where they'll be serving beer and drinks in pee cups) maybe they could change this night up a little as well. Maybe a Pat O'brien bobblehead, a free pass to Scarlets Gentlemens Club and a free beer too ;)

jackmd
03-31-2005, 08:31 AM
I know usd and the S.F. Canaries have been planning a Pat O'brien bobble head night for some time now. With the Canaries new management and their nitch for poking fun at news worthy sports situations (ie. Randy Moss afro night when there's a full moon and a special night where they'll be serving beer and drinks in pee cups) maybe they could change this night up a little as well. Maybe a Pat O'brien bobblehead, a free pass to Scarlets Gentlemens Club and a free beer too ;)

Count me in!! Oh the memories of Scarlets. Bumped into Dennis Rodman in that fine establishment. (I believe he was in town for some WWF thing).

I also remember some creepy guy with a mustache and a USD cap hanging out in the corner. He was always wasted and sniffled a lot. He use to mutter, "I want to drive you nuts". Now I know who that was!!

http://www.nypost.com/photos/entlede03302005.jpg

SDSUFAN
03-31-2005, 09:05 PM
Not about to comment on Pat O'brien, I dont want to get beat up like I did when commenting on the NDSU kicker last fall. ;D

I did happen to catch WNAX'S Skybox tonight. One of the guests was Dave Boots, USD, coach. Steve Emming asked if he missed the SDSU/USD rivarly. Boots said he was a good friend of Scott Nagy and enjoyed coaching against him.

He went on to say that he thought South Dakota could use a D1 program and he felt Scott would get SDSU to be competitive at that level very soon. I was rather surprised with his comments but I believe he was sincere.

I think Coach Boots handled this question about missing the SDSU rivalry better than Chad Lavin did on the Craig and Mike show. Lavin said something to the effect that SDSU wins over D1 opponents indicated weaknesses at the D1 level in women's basketball and several NCC opponents could do the same as SDSU if they played SDSU's schedule of D1 opponents.

Steve Emming did not ask Boots about the budget problems, and Boots stayed away from this isssue and talked about coaching basketball.

I think Boots is a class guy and you have to respect a coach who has won over 70 per cent of his games during a 17 year span. He obviously is doing some things right.
Gosh I said something nice about USD.

OK_Jackrabbit
04-01-2005, 05:52 AM
I think Boots is a class guy and you have to respect a coach who has won over 70 per cent of his games during a 17 year span. He obviously is doing some things right.
Gosh I said something nice about USD.
You have to respect what Boots has done at USD given that he must recruit into a bad town (hey, I was born there... I'm entitled to that opinion) with a poor basketball facility. He has accomplished a lot with what he has to work with at USD.

89rabbit
05-05-2005, 05:57 AM
Is it me or does this trip seem strange for a school that has a 6 figure deficit situation with it’s athletics budget and is talking about maybe cutting more sports? ??? ??? ???

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050505/SPORTS0203/505050352/1002/SPORTS

USD basketball team to visit China

MICK GARRY
mgarry@argusleader.com

Published: 05/5/05 1:55 am

The University of South Dakota men's basketball team will take the longest road trip in its history in a few weeks when the Coyotes travel to China for a 10-day visit.

It was just last week that USD officials arranged for a trip set up by Basketball Travelers Inc., a company that helps college programs get offseason games overseas.

USD had made trips over oceans before, traveling to England five years ago, but never this far away."We got a call about a week ago from Nels Hawkinson of Basketball Travelers asking us if we were interested," USD coach Dave Boots said. "It happened very quickly. We got a very good price on it. When we heard the details we definitely wanted to do it." . . .

USD is granted 10 team practices in preparation for the trip. They will also be able to take the three seniors on this year's squad - Steve Anderson, Josh Mueller and Luke Tibbetts.

"They were really excited," Boots said. "They thought they were done playing and all of a sudden they get a nice ending to their careers here. The practices will help us get a jump on next year and give a lot of playing time to the guys coming back next year."


The question that has to be asked is, if you want to give "a lot of playing time to guys coming back next year" why bring Anderson, Mueller, and Tibbetts? Very strange.

BHSSDSUFAN
05-05-2005, 06:33 AM
Is it me or does this trip seem strange for a school that has a 6 figure deficit situation with it’s athletics budget and is talking about maybe cutting more sports?


89rabbit-

Why do YOU care what USD is doing?

89rabbit
05-05-2005, 06:37 AM
89rabbit-

Why do YOU care what USD is doing?


Here is your answer from earlier in the thread. The fiasco I am referring to is of course the budget deficit not the trip to China specifically. It may however send the wrong message to cut swimming scholarships (opportunities for kids to go to school) in March and in May be sending the basketball team to China. Again, maybe it is me.



I posted it here because I am sure this fiasco is going to cost the good people of South Dakota more tax money (Just like the Grain Bin's/Dakota Dome Roof and the Med. School).

BHSSDSUFAN
05-05-2005, 06:41 AM
What's it going to cost them?

BHSSDSUFAN
05-05-2005, 06:45 AM
Ok, I see! I didn't know if they were getting a guarantee, like SDSU gets.

Mavericks#1
05-05-2005, 07:32 AM
The question that has to be asked is, if you want to give "a lot of playing time to guys coming back next year" why bring Anderson, Mueller, and Tibbetts? Very strange.






I heard that all three really like Chinese food. . . .


Mavs#1


(*edited by the moderator for content)

jackrabbit1979
05-05-2005, 07:53 AM
I heard that all three really like Chinese food. . .


Mavs#1

(*edited by the Moderator for content)



WOW Mav, that may be an all new low. I am putting the over under on this post staying on the board at 10:30. I will take the under (before).

Rabbitlivinginverm
05-05-2005, 07:56 AM
I heard that all three really like Chinese food. . . .


Mavs#1

(*edited by the Moderator for content)


Nope, one's just a little lazy....I've always wondered how he could be such a dead eye from downtown with one eye on the rim and the other looking at the scorer's table...

jackrabbit1979
05-05-2005, 08:25 AM
I heard that all three really like Chinese food. . . .


Mavs#1


(*edited by the moderator for content)



Looks like i should move to Vegas. :)

OK_Jackrabbit
05-05-2005, 08:35 AM
What's it going to cost them?
That's one of those questions I wish journalists would ask more often. My guess is that the reporter on that story asked and just accepted Boots' response about getting a 'good price'. Just accepting an answer because it fills a space in your story isn't very good journalism. Sure, Boots will remain your pal if you don't press him, but is that the point? I'd rather be respected (or even feared a little) than taken for granted.

The follow-up to that is: That's nice, but it doesn't answer my question. You represent a public university and the cost of your trip to China is public information. I need an answer or the story will say you refused to respond.

sports_buff
05-05-2005, 08:58 AM
I'm glad to see the basketball team get to go on this trip, that should be a lot of fun and it should help them for next year. Man, I wish I was on the team, it sounds like it will be a great trip. I just assume see most of the money go towards the basketball teams and the football team.
I like coming to this site, because 89rabbit is always keeping me informed about whats going on at USD. Thanks again 89. ;D

89rabbit
05-05-2005, 09:06 AM
I know you don't have your own board, so I do what I can. ;) ;D

Go State! ;D

89rabbit
05-05-2005, 09:11 AM
I just assume see most of the money go towards the basketball teams and the football team.


That kind of thinking, is what got your school into Title IX/finacial difficulties in the first place. ;)

Go State! ;D

JBNJBQ
05-06-2005, 11:19 AM
That kind of thinking, is what got your school into Title IX/finacial difficulties in the first place. ;)

Go State! ;D



What are you talking about?

I looked at the USD women's schedule for this year. They were scheduled to go to two tournaments:

Both in sunny Sioux Falls, South Dakota in December.

I wonder if they had to drive their own cars?

Was that more of an educational experience too?


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


JBNJBQ

JBNJBQ
05-11-2005, 04:20 AM
http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050511/SPORTS/505110306/1002


Firm: China pulls its support from USD trip
Men's basketball team was due to visit the country on May 21

MICK GARRY
mgarry@argusleader.com

Published: 05/11/05 1:55 am

What seemed a little too good to be true was just that.

The University of South Dakota men's basketball team was to leave on a 10-day trip to China, and now it's not.

According to Basketball Travelers, Inc., the firm that set up the trip and then offered it to USD, the Chinese backed out on promises to help fund the journey, the basketball team learned Monday."We're talking about a $60,000 trip that we were able to put together for about $12,000," said Nels Hawkinson, executive director of Basketball Travelers Inc.

"It seemed perfect, but it boiled down to them deciding not to go through with the financial commitments they'd promised us. We've been scheduling trips for teams all over the world for 20 years now, and I don't ever remember anything ever happening like this."USD was to accompany Alaska-Fairbanks, with a total of five games scheduled against the Shanghai Sharks and the Bayi Rockets, both of the Chinese Basketball Association. The Alaska school will also be missing out on what might have been a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

"It didn't have anything to do with us," USD coach Dave Boots said. "Basketball Travelers set it up pretty quickly for us. When it didn't work out with China, that was it. It would have been fun for us to go."

Canceling the trip was a disappointment to Coyote players, who were about to begin a 10-day practice period to prepare for the offseason games."Coach Boots told us last week there were some complications, but we all expected they'd iron them out," said graduating senior Steve Anderson. "Everybody had such high hopes. It was going to be a big trip for us, especially the seniors. Now, we're heading out to the real world a little sooner."

This was to have been the first foray into China for Basketball Travelers Inc., as well as USD. Hawkinson, who helped the Chinese national team line up games in the United States in the past, is now hesitant to send another team that direction."I had some very difficult phone calls to make," Hawkinson said. "We'd thought this trip was going to open the door for others. This is obviously a very poor start. I'm not sure we want to pursue it anymore when there are other areas of the world that are sure things."



The Chinese must have found out they are DII schools not DI like the other 23 scheduled to make the trip?


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


JBNJBQ

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
05-11-2005, 10:49 AM
I don't feel particularly bad for USD (shocker, I know), but I feel bad for the athletes who were told they were going to be able to participate in this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Playing in this thing is something they would have remembered for the rest of their lives. Now, at the last moment, the suits pull the plug? That's BS. It's too bad that in place of what could have been a great memory, they're instead stuck with bitterness over something they couldn't control.

SDSUFAN
05-16-2005, 04:19 AM
Our young USD friend, sophmore Jeremy Hoeck has commented again in his column in the Argus. I wonder is USD worthy of SDSU rivalry? Nope.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050516/LIFE/505160332/1004

Is Augie a worthy USD rival?
Jeremy Hoeck

Published: 05/16/05 1:55 am

While this opportunity to write columns has been great for me, I have the hardest time thinking of topics aside from the sports world. After all, sports are my life and my job. Aside from my girlfriend, sports are the main thought in my everyday life.

My opinions of Sioux Falls-related topics aren't very well-founded ("We need a new downtown library because, well, I need more books to read") and my interest in politics extends to "Gee, I didn't even know the school board needed members."

All bias aside, my interest in local collegiate sports has greatly increased throughout this past year. Before entering my current position with the University of South Dakota's newspaper, The Volante, I had no idea what the NCC stood for (North Central Conference) and was so sure South Dakota State wouldn't jump ship. Boy, was I sadly mistaken.I have heard people say more times than I wish to hear that USD and Augustana are now considered the new in-state rivalry. With SDSU gone from the conference, USD was in shock to find it had no main rival any longer. From what I can see, desperation set in with many people. It was almost as if they needed a rivalry. My question is this: Is Augustana really the rival USD is looking for?

Think about it from the basic numbers. This past year, USD had an enrollment of 8,120, while Augustana had an enrollment of 1,770. Because Augustana is a private school, the university's emphasis doesn't shine as brightly on athletics as USD's does.Second, Augustana had only three sports post a winning record (basketball, softball and volleyball), while USD had every sport except softball and tennis post a winning record.

When the USD men's basketball team played Augustana at the Arena on Feb. 24, the most creative sign the Augustana student section could come up with was "Mueller drinks his own pee." Are you kidding me?

While I may be too young to appreciate most of the hard-core bantering SDSU and USD threw at each other in every game they played, I realize Augustana just isn't up to the task. It will never have the success that SDSU had against USD.A rivalry is not simply a one-sided affair; both teams have to win some of the time. And up to this point, I just haven't seen enough from Augustana for it to be considered a rival to USD.

Yes, the two schools may have the proximity factor going for them; everything else just points to two normal in-state universities.Jeremy Hoeck is a sophomore at the University of South Dakota.

Copyright 2005 Argus Leader. All rights reserved

jack100
05-16-2005, 06:29 AM
Is Augie a worthy USD rival?
Jeremy Hoeck

Published: 05/16/05 1:55 am
Second, Augustana had only three sports post a winning record (basketball, softball and volleyball), while USD had every sport except softball and tennis post a winning record.



Mr. Hoeck continues to have a hard time getting his facts correct. Augustana's wrestling team finished 2nd in the national tournament and had a 14-2 dual record - that makes at least four Augie teams with a winning record.

filbert
05-16-2005, 08:12 AM
Mr. Hoeck continues to have a hard time getting his facts correct. Augustana's wrestling team finished 2nd in the national tournament and had a 14-2 dual record - that makes at least four Augie teams with a winning record.


Please. If USD doesn't play a sport, by definition it is irrelevant. Like baseball, for instance.

MilwaukeeJacksAlum
05-16-2005, 11:38 AM
Doesn't the Argus edit his articles? Not only does he continually bludgeon factual statements, his writing is very average. His writing seems more akin to a English 101 essay that was written the night prior to it's deadline than it does to an article to be published in the state's largest news publication. I find it hard to read his articles. He has no flow and his sentences are structurally weak in many instances. Doesn't do much for the school or the paper to let this guy write an article, in my opinion.

jackrabbit1979
05-16-2005, 07:50 PM
I agree, Go Jacks 02 would tear him apart, and all i have seen is message board scribbling. So much for the Al Neuharth Center for....

Ill take good old Yeager hall anyday.

GoJacks02
05-20-2005, 06:16 AM
Just for you 79, I wrote a little letter to the editor and we'll see if it gets published. In case it doesn't.

When Volante columnist Jeremy Hoeck questions the strength of the rivalry between the University of South Dakota and Augustana, I understand. I have seen this type of behavior before. I was the youngest of three children, and I watched my older brother deal with middle child syndrome.

Until 2004, the North Central Conference was home to South Dakota State University, USD, Augustana and the highest level of college sports in South Dakota. Siblings in sport, each institution has lived up to typical birth order roles.

SDSU, the first-born, has always been a step ahead. As a founding member of what eventually became the NCC, State introduced collegiate sports to South Dakota. Living under that roof for more than 80 years, the Jacks brought home 129 NCC championships.

Augustana is the baby. They’re the smallest. They’re spoiled with all that major-market power, making the older siblings jealous. They seem inadequate compared to both the Jacks and Coyotes, having only managed to collect 27 NCC titles since 1942.

That leaves the middle child. Bigger than Augustana, smaller than State. With claim to 64 NCC championships, the Coyotes have had more success than the Vikings, but less than the Jacks.

Like many middle children, USD rebelled to cope with the solitude that comes with being life-long-second-best. Since it became futile to think of the sporting nature of the USD – SDSU rivalry, the Coyotes made it about hate. Their fans made it about hate. Dead rabbits thrown onto the court made it about hate. Full page ads on the back of the school newspaper made it about hate.

Funny how abundances of pride and adoration mix together to form hate, isn’t it?

When South Dakota State moved out of the NCC, the home they helped build, the Coyotes could finally concentrate on making their own lasting impression. They weren’t done rebelling, though.

In a tantrum aimed at both siblings, USD proclaimed themselves South Dakota’s Team – as if SDSU had moved to Canada and Augustana had pulled a Vatican and made itself a nation. It was Jan Brady wishing to be an only child all over again.

Thankfully, middle children typically straighten themselves out. Perhaps as the pressure of having to compete with the Jacks becomes more of a memory, USD can stop trying so hard to prove themselves and start trying to be themselves.

Along the way, USD should embrace Augustana as a rival. Sure, competitively the Vikings aren’t a great fit. Of course, USD developed a rivalry with SDSU despite the unbalance. If you use NCC Championships as a measuring stick, Augustana will be almost as competitive with USD as USD ever was with SDSU.

It can happen, USD, if you beat them so much they begin to hate you. Then you’ll have your rivalry. Good luck rhyming anything with Augustana.

89rabbit
05-20-2005, 06:23 AM
Just for you 79, I wrote a little letter to the editor and we'll see if it gets published. In case it doesn't.

When Volante columnist Jeremy Hoeck questions the strength of the rivalry between the University of South Dakota and Augustana, I understand. I have seen this type of behavior before. I was the youngest of three children, and I watched my older brother deal with middle child syndrome.

Until 2004, the North Central Conference was home to South Dakota State University, USD, Augustana and the highest level of college sports in South Dakota. Siblings in sport, each institution has lived up to typical birth order roles.

SDSU, the first-born, has always been a step ahead. As a founding member of what eventually became the NCC, State introduced collegiate sports to South Dakota. Living under that roof for more than 80 years, the Jacks brought home 129 NCC championships.

Augustana is the baby. They’re the smallest. They’re spoiled with all that major-market power, making the older siblings jealous. They seem inadequate compared to both the Jacks and Coyotes, having only managed to collect 27 NCC titles since 1942.

That leaves the middle child. Bigger than Augustana, smaller than State. With claim to 64 NCC championships, the Coyotes have had more success than the Vikings, but less than the Jacks.

Like many middle children, USD rebelled to cope with the solitude that comes with being life-long-second-best. Since it became futile to think of the sporting nature of the USD – SDSU rivalry, the Coyotes made it about hate. Their fans made it about hate. Dead rabbits thrown onto the court made it about hate. Full page ads on the back of the school newspaper made it about hate.

Funny how abundances of pride and adoration mix together to form hate, isn’t it?

When South Dakota State moved out of the NCC, the home they helped build, the Coyotes could finally concentrate on making their own lasting impression. They weren’t done rebelling, though.

In a tantrum aimed at both siblings, USD proclaimed themselves South Dakota’s Team – as if SDSU had moved to Canada and Augustana had pulled a Vatican and made itself a nation. It was Jan Brady wishing to be an only child all over again.

Thankfully, middle children typically straighten themselves out. Perhaps as the pressure of having to compete with the Jacks becomes more of a memory, USD can stop trying so hard to prove themselves and start trying to be themselves.

Along the way, USD should embrace Augustana as a rival. Sure, competitively the Vikings aren’t a great fit. Of course, USD developed a rivalry with SDSU despite the unbalance. If you use NCC Championships as a measuring stick, Augustana will be almost as competitive with USD as USD ever was with SDSU.

It can happen, USD, if you beat them so much they begin to hate you. Then you’ll have your rivalry. Good luck rhyming anything with Augustana.


Outstanding job! :D

Go State! ;D

sports_buff
05-20-2005, 07:16 AM
Hopefully nobody brings up the dead coyotes that have been thrown on the floor over the years and the full page newspaper ads saying Osama Bin Mueller. People might think SDSU fans made it about hate.
Just so you know it was tough for us USD fans to watch our older brother get picked on by NAIA teams this year. All brothers hate to see their older brothers lose the strength and power that they once had. We were starting to see that in your last year in DII and now it has just gotten worse. I just hope our younger brother, Augie, doesn't overtake us like your younger brother has.
Everyone says I should start a USD fan board, but why would I need to. This board has plenty of USD news. I swear that USD gets talked about as much on here as SDSU does.

OK_Jackrabbit
05-20-2005, 07:59 AM
I agree, Go Jacks 02 would tear him apart, and all i have seen is message board scribbling. So much for the Al Neuharth Center for....

Ill take good old Yeager hall anyday.
USD just hired an SDSU Journalism grad (Charles Luebbers, a good guy from K-State) to lead their journalism program.

GoJacks02
05-20-2005, 09:49 AM
Hopefully nobody brings up the dead coyotes that have been thrown on the floor over the years and the full page newspaper ads saying Osama Bin Mueller. People might think SDSU fans made it about hate.
Just so you know it was tough for us USD fans to watch our older brother get picked on by NAIA teams this year. All brothers hate to see their older brothers lose the strength and power that they once had. We were starting to see that in your last year in DII and now it has just gotten worse. I just hope our younger brother, Augie, doesn't overtake us like your younger brother has.


Of course, as always you are focusing on the only thing you can, which is State's 04-05 Men's Basketball team - which was dealt some unfortunate blows by a few players who couldn't handle going Division I. Nagy will bring us back around. If you seriously think USD has ever or will ever have a more accomplished program than State, then you're nothing more that a short-sigthed homer.

As for the childishness at games - at least in Brookings, its relegated to a small part of the student section. Its EVERYWHERE in the Dakota Dome. I have been threatened with violence several times - for doing NOTHING but cheering for my team the entire game.

But, I digress. I will never have to experience that again. We've moved on up...to a DEEELUXE apartment...in the sky-eye-eye.

Seriously, have fun with Augie. Marsha Marsha Marsha!

JACKGUYII
05-31-2005, 08:24 AM
I heard an ad the other day on the radio promoting USD's fund raising event in Sioux Falls. It ended by saying the "University of South Dakota South Dakota's team where everyone plays". Sounds like a tag line for a youth or intramural league.

filbert
05-31-2005, 10:31 AM
I heard an ad the other day on the radio promoting USD's fund raising event in Sioux Falls. It ended by saying the "University of South Dakota South Dakota's team where everyone plays". Sounds like a tag line for a youth or intramural league.

You have to give USD credit for trying. However, they're doomed and they know it. SDSU is in "big-time" athletics from here on out, and USD is in D-II. USD will slowly see its newspaper space and TV sportscast time shrink as SDSU's D-I programs ramp up and play the likes of the Gophers, Hawkeyes, and Huskers on a regular basis.

To some extent, the increase in SDSU coverage will be driven by out-of-town sports reporters coming to Brookings/Sioux Falls to cover their teams. These folks have no dog in the SDSU-USD-Augie-USF-etc. fight. But, they'll be sitting beside their Argus or KELO counterparts at the SDSU games and saying things like "why did this USD-Nebraska-Kearney game story get written up in your paper just as big as the SDSU-Alabama game did?"

Unless USD somehow figures out how to pay for D-I, in the coming years, stories about the Coyotes will increasingly appear below-the-fold, on page two, or in the "in other area sports . . . " segment of the 6 and 10 pm newscasts. USD fans will howl, of course but reality is hard, and the reality is that SDSU is D-I and USD is D-II.

The whole "South Dakota's Team" ad campaign is just whistling past the graveyard. No smack here, just reality.

SDsportsFan
05-31-2005, 10:47 AM
USD will slowly see its newspaper space and TV sportscast time shrink as SDSU's D-I programs ramp up and play the likes of the Gophers, Hawkeyes, and

Unless USD somehow figures out how to pay for D-I, in the coming years, stories about the Coyotes will increasingly appear below-the-fold, on page two, or in the "in other area sports . . . " segment of the 6 and 10 pm newscasts. USD fans will howl, of course but reality is hard, and the reality is that SDSU is D-I and USD is D-II.



Hopefully this does happen. Many State fans I talk to, including people on this board, feel the media is biased in favor of USD. I haven't really noticed that, but if it truely is the case then USD's coverage may never go away.
SD media isn't used to having a DI team to report on, hopefully they figure out that it should get more coverage than the DII teams.

OK_Jackrabbit
05-31-2005, 10:58 AM
The Argus has said it will cover SDSU as a DI program. They have assigned a reporter to the SDSU beat at considerable travel expense. They still cover USD and have a beat reporter assigned there and that's fine. That's a lot less expensive for them. Mick never has to go to California to cover a game like Chris does. Really all you can ask for is a commitment from your local media to expend some of its relatively meager resources on us and I think we have that. Keep in mind that the big, bad Argus Leader has something like five guys on its sports staff.

I do agree that, over time, there will be some shifts of perception in South Dakota that will ultimately be reflected by media coverage as SDSU becomes increasingly competitive at the DI level and has more games against big-time opponents.

JACKGUYII
05-31-2005, 11:13 AM
You almost get the feeling that many of the Sioux Falls media (print, television,radio) think SDSU is just flirting with DI and at some point will come to their senses and go back to where they belong and that is competing with the likes of Augie and USD. How dare a school in the state of South Dakota venture out and try to compete with the likes of some of the areas esstablished DI programs. I think reality will begin to settle in when they see the Jacks continue to improve and start competing with the Minnesota's Nebraska's etc. garnering big crowds and excitement and state pride never seen before. A few years ago the heralded Sioux Falls Roosevelt girls basketball team had an opportunity to go out and play a number of perennial national powers in a Oregon tournament. It took practically an act of the legislature to grant permission for them to take part. Again it was the old theme from many "who do they think they are" and lets treat everyone the same. Not only did Roosevelt compete but they won the tournament. I'm not a fan of Fred Tibbitts but I do give him credit for bucking the status quo and pushing for the opportunity to allow his team to compete at the highest level. Change seems to be so hard for the state of South Dakota. Look at things like finally adding a state football playoff system(took a players father to sue the state, moving womens basketball to the fall so they could better compete for scholarships with other states and now simpy adding a 20th game to the basketball season. All of things were and are being bitterly fought because it represents change.