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89rabbit
10-28-2005, 07:11 AM
Here are highlights from the Lexington Herald-Leader:

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/13021272.htm

University of North Dakota again to study move to NCAA Division I

Associated Press


FARGO, N.D. - The University of North Dakota is planning another study of a possible move to NCAA Division I athletics.

Athletic Director Tom Buning said a committee will study the possibility, for the second time in nearly a year. The makeup of the study committee has yet to be determined, but it will be a "broad spectrum of people," Buning said.

The study is part of President Charles Kupchella's strategic plan for UND in 2005. The school may ask the NCAA to consider moving some sports to Division I and leaving others in Division II. The Sioux already have a Division I hockey team.

Buning said he wants to hire a consultant to aid in the process.

"It's something I will advocate for, to keep it focused on task," he said.

North Dakota State and South Dakota State each hired Carr Sports Associates during their Division I studies. . . .

Buning said he expects UND's study to be finished during the current academic year.

"We're not going to spend forever on this," he said.

If UND moves forward with Division I athletics, it could spell trouble for the North Central Conference. The league is down to seven teams after NDSU, SDSU and Northern Colorado left for Division I.



Go State! ;D

jackrabbit1979
10-28-2005, 07:48 PM
Craig and Mike ranted and raved about this subject for about half of their show today. They were dead set against UND moving up and really said some nasty stuff as to why UND would do this to the rest of the NCC. Nevermind the fact that a university has to look out for themselves if the rest of thier peers are too small minded to see what is happening in D2.

Mike went on to say UND probaly could make it in D1 and he can see them and NDSU teaming up and throwing SDSU under the bus. He didn't hesitate to take subtle jabs at SDSU and Brookings' ablility to make it at the D1 level through all the talk. Craig made a joke as to UND hiring Carr and associates to help them...which i don't quite understand because i would assume most would say NDSU and SDSU are in a better place now then they were in D2 and might like their situation a litlle better than what the rest of the NCC is now facing. All together they were worried what was going to happen to USD and their precious Augie (who along with USF's game at Nebraska Weslyan ::) they seemed to feature as the football games of the weekend). I eventually quit listening as they were talking about USF and Morningside rejoining the NCC if UND moves.

I don't mean to make jabs at the show, because i do enjoy the sports banter. But they are blatantly anti-SDSU and everything that came with the D1 move. Even when they are talking positively about SDSU they get their cheapshots in. I don't really want them to change because i do respect the fact that each journalist has their opinion... maybe we need another sports talk show in SD.

jack100
10-28-2005, 08:52 PM
1570 am - Even though Lane Grindle is Mr. USD his show is very good. Much more entertaining than the 1230 am 3:00 pm show or for that matter 910 am 9:00 am sports show.

bisonmike
10-29-2005, 08:57 AM
The only reason this is being brought up is because of the new AD. He's been getting pressure from UND alumi to make this move because of the success that NDSU and SDSU are having. They'll do their study, the study will tell them that they should move up only with a conference, they won't have to balls (nor financial capability) to move up and this issue will die until more UND alumni bring it up in 5 more years. And this will be the cycle for about 10 or 15 years or until UND gets a President who genuinely has a vision for the university instead of one who constantly does things out of spite.

jackrabit1
10-31-2005, 12:15 PM
Personally, I think the entire NCC should bite the bullet and make the jump to DI. Just from reading what some of the NCC schools spend on athletics, and from the traditional strength of the conference, it would appear that they are already Division I-caliber, if not in name.

Instead of trying to recruit all over the country for new members, the NCC should "take the plunge" and make the move...come on in, the water's fine!

Rabbit_FB_Alum
10-31-2005, 01:08 PM
Personally, I think the entire NCC should bite the bullet and make the jump to DI. Just from reading what some of the NCC schools spend on athletics, and from the traditional strength of the conference, it would appear that they are already Division I-caliber, if not in name.

Instead of trying to recruit all over the country for new members, the NCC should "take the plunge" and make the move...come on in, the water's fine!


The only problem with this is that what is left of the NCC, only UND could make the jump. The calibur of the NCC has really gone down hill in the last few years along with all D2 across the board. I mean Auggie D1??? Now that is funny!

OK_Jackrabbit
10-31-2005, 01:23 PM
The only problem with this is that what is left of the NCC, only UND could make the jump. The calibur of the NCC has really gone down hill in the last few years along with all D2 across the board. I mean Auggie D1??? Now that is funny!
Usually, we hear rumors that Augie is moving down a division, not up.

Mike_H
10-31-2005, 03:38 PM
79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either. ;)

gojacksgo
10-31-2005, 04:23 PM
I'm siding with Mike on this one. I listened to most of the show that day and couldn't really find anything that was a "jab" at SDSU. I had a big reply ready a couple days ago, but decided not to post it, but echoes alot of the things Mike has said now. I'm a Jacks fan, but I sure didn't hear anything bad said about them. Mike isn't for the move, but there's no need to put words in his mouth.

89rabbit
10-31-2005, 09:06 PM
Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up.


Sure this one is easy.

Let's start with TV markets. By adding SDSU and NDSU you are adding the # 116 (Sioux Falls) and # 118 (Fargo) TV markets in the country. You would also be adding two States to your conference alignment. Since South Dakota only has one D-I University (in this scenario ND has two) you could very well look at adding most of the entire state of South Dakota which has a larger population base then North Dakota to begin with. To put it another way SDSU would have the most upside, between the three schools, because South Dakota's larger population would not be divided by a second D-I school. So adding UND and NDSU gives you the entire ND market but you have given up the larger SD market to do so.

Next let's talk about Basketball. At the end of the day from a Mid-Major prospective basketball is king and I don't think I need to go into any great detail as to why again SDSU has the most upside of the three Universities.

Another point is that UND is already two full years behind NDSU and SDSU in the transition process and this gap grows wider every day. So by adding SDSU and NDSU you would also have playoff eligible schools sooner then a UND/NDSU addition.

What are the advantages of adding both UND and NDSU and excluding SDSU? You get a better I-AA football pairing (although SDSU is showing much improvment on the football front) but you lose the best basketball school of the three. You lock down the ND TV market but you lose the entire South Dakota market. You do get two schools that are a little closer together (NDSU to UND 81.59 miles - NDSU to SDSU 190.12 miles), however UND is the farthest north of the three. If the Dakota are sometimes perceived as being isolated why add the combo that has the school that is the most remote? You would get a great hockey arena by adding UND, but that won't matter to many conferences.

Finally by adding the Bison and the Jackrabbits rather then the Fighting Sioux you avoid any snarls with the NCAA and mascot names.

This is by no means a comprehensive list of why a SDSU/NDSU combo is better, just a few "quick hitters" off the top of my head. Hope this helps.


Go State! ;D

jackrabbit1979
10-31-2005, 10:01 PM
79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either. ;)


I will defend my post. i do admit, and have on many occasions, that i obviously hear stuff with jackrabbit ears on as that is what most diehard fans do. However, i don't think i am far off on my recollection of the show. Maybe where i interpret the subtle jabs at SDSU is in the fact that i hear mike's true feelings and statements as he posts them on this board, and then hear his buttered up "radio show" statements on the air. maybe i can't decipher his negativety here and his milktoast commentary there.

What i don't get is how they almost never take a pro SDSU stance during any subject unless they have a SDSU administrator or coach on the show. Maybe you didn't bash SDSU when the thought of UND going D1 came up, but you sure didn't support them. You did say you could see SDSU being thrown under the bus. Maybe you can, but why fuel the fire in your home state and not support your home institution. And what don't you get about Craig's Carr report comment, it was blatent atleast in the way i and the gentleman riding in my vehicle interpreted it. Pretty much telling UND to hire Carr and Associates because they benefited SDSU and NDSU soooo much during their studies. Sarcasm added. And i only brought up the USF and Augie comments because i didn't hear anything about GSU coming to Brookings. I admit i didn't here the whole show or the rest of the week so maybe you guys did commit time to the game. If so I apoligize. I really can't make an arguement now anyway after our strong ::) 4500 at the game on Sat.

This is the last time i will post on the subject, i apologize if i put words in anyones mouth. As I reread my post tonight i still don't think i did. But i do understand everyone speaks with their own mouths and own thoughts. Again Mike, sorry for the harsh post. Keep on broadcasting, I will keep on listening, and life will go on. We have already commited too much time to this one radio show.

FargoBison
10-31-2005, 10:03 PM
I think UND going DI could mean some good things for NDSU and SDSU since UND will only go DI if a conference is very serious about adding them.

So my perdiction is this, sometime from 2006-20007 the Big Sky is going to get serious again about expansion and they will add NDSU, UND, and SDSU. There are already complaints about the problems that a 9 team league faces in scheduling and the Montana schools want the Dakota's.

In my opinion this is the best scenario that could have come to NDSU and SDSU because a Big Sky with the Montana schools, UNC, and UND is very appealing. Fans have drivable games, and they known about these schools(Big problem with the Mid-Con).

My other prediction is that UNO either goes to the Mid-Con/Gateway or MIAA and USD either goes to the MIAA or reforms the NCC with area D2's.

Bison_Dan
11-01-2005, 06:18 AM
Maybe SDSU and NDSU go to the Mid-Con and und is left swinging in the wind?? ;D ;D

89rabbit
11-04-2005, 06:27 AM
Highlights from a Fargo Forum story:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=107597&section=Columnists&columnist=J eff%20Kolpack (sub. site but it is free)

Feasibility. Reclassification. Institution. Get ready for those three words, University of North Dakota followers.

They will be used repeatedly in the next year if the university hires a consultant Ė which it is expected to and which it should do Ė in its Division I decision. . . .

There was a popular notion in this space that the Sioux would never consider the D-I issue as long as Charles Kupchella is president. That theory is starting to dwindle for two reasons:

- Division II is getting so watered down that even the president has to admit the competition is lacking.

- Tom Buning. This is the guy who will lead UND to the next level. The first-year athletic director came to Grand Forks with no preconceived ideas on this issue. . . .

He came from a Division I institution, Army. In that regard, heís not unlike NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor, who came from Division I Navy.

They both came to North Dakota with open minds. And thatís what you want on this issue.

UNDís decision seems like a slam dunk. This is the second time in less than a year it is looking at moving up, and this one seems more serious with Buning running the show.

Once a consultant is hired, what is there for the firm not to like about the school? It has facilities, tradition, personnel, rich alumni and a large fan base. It appears solid in its Title IX compliance.

If Carr Sports Associates gave the OK for NDSU and SDSU, itís doubtful a consultant would find much fault with UND.

UNDís strategic plan for 2005 calls for an effort to change the NCAAís rule on allowing more than one sport to move to Division I.

Three words: Give it up. It will never happen.

There is no way in the name of Buck Buchanan and Walter Payton that Division I-AA football programs will stand for Division II schools to play at that level. If for no other reason, their egos will get in the way.

Plus, it would create mass division confusion. Whoís playing at what level and where?

The consultant will give UND rave reviews with the exception of the conference issue. NDSU and SDSU are rolling the dice.

Itís to be determined if UND is willing to gamble, too.



Go State! ;D

SDSUFAN
11-04-2005, 02:43 PM
79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either. ;)

Mike:
I did not listen to your show the day that 79 referred too, and I think you have defended yourself properly, but the question about a conference wanting NDSU and UND over SDSU, is a little presumptious. I wonder if you bought into Mick Gerry comments in the Sunday article about dollar size of budgets. The thing that is so misleading about Gerrys article is tha substantial portion of UND's 9 million budget is for D1 Hockey men and women. Mick failed to mention that point. Same is true of UNO and their 7 million budget. Most is for D1 hockey which neither NDSU or SDSU have or will want to have. Take Hockey out of the equation and budgets are much different in compariabilty and size.

I agree UND moving up might give SDSU better options in terms of a conference. The Big Sky expansion is still an option. Also UND would be an excellent for UNC in the Great West.

Frankly I glad SDSU has equestrian instead as it works for SDSU, but that hockey????? I not a hockey fan and granted its $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for UND, but its expensive sport with a hugh travel budget.

For either NDSU or SDSU to start to think Hockey would be cost prohibited, and I am glad SDSU has kept their swimming and diving sport. Again UND would be a better fit for the Mid Con than NDSU in that sport which they dont have.

Who is better than who seems to be a very academic and debatable question in terms of D1 conferences.

I do think that UND should hire Carr Associates, and the fact they have not so far, makes you wonder if Kupchella is going through an excerise to please his new AD, who thinks otherwise. ;)

Mike_H
11-04-2005, 07:03 PM
89: What TV markets are you talking about? SDSU is not in Sioux Falls. Their games are not broadcast on any Sioux Falls television stations. Their games are not even broadcast on any Sioux Falls radio stations. WNAX, back in the days of ratings, was lucky to make a blip on the ratings radar in the Sioux Falls book, and there have been several radio stations added to the market since then. UND has their games televised across the upper midwest on Midcontinent cable systems. I am not saying that SDSU will or will not have such a deal in the future, but this is the way things are now.

Can't argue your other points. I even brought up the fact that UND is behind in the process because of their indecision, and that is not a benefit to anyone involved.

89rabbit
11-04-2005, 07:14 PM
Come on Mike, you are smarter then that. ::)


Go State! ;D

89rabbit
11-04-2005, 07:39 PM
I am not saying that SDSU will or will not have such a deal in the future, but this is the way things are now.



This line gives me a lot of insight to your position on SDSU's move to D-I. Let me leave you with a few quotes that you can ponder.


The empires of the future are the empires of the mind.
-Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

The future is not a result of choices among alternative paths offered by the present, but a place that is created--created first in the mind and will, created next in activity. The future is not some place we are going to, but one we are creating. The paths are not to be found, but made, and the activity of making them, changes both the maker and the destination.
-John Schaar, futurist


The future belongs to those who dare.
-Anonymous


Go State! ;D

Mike_H
11-05-2005, 06:36 AM
Thanks for the arrogant eye roll. I so love those!

And to think you threw in a condescending sermon for free! I've really missed that. I had forgotten just how stupid I was. Thanks for the reminder!

Go State! ;D

Rabbitden
11-05-2005, 07:03 AM
Mike_H,
SDSU is in the SF TV market...for a broadcaster you should be aware of this. The SF TV market is considered regional in the State of SD.

Case in point...Nielson ratings for the three locals are tested and tabulated through out the state of SD. Unlike most states our population base does not garner these ratings to be tabulated from SF alone.

Mike you are losing ground here...I generaly enjoy listening to you and some of your sports knowledge. Lately though your red wings have been emerging even more. Subtlely you do throw jabs when you get the opportunity, whether this is subconciously or not.

I will still listen because yes even radio is tested by listening area. I do enjoy the show, keep up the good work and dont be afraid to wear blue and yellow on your sleeves some days, the moves been made its time to push for the benifits for SD not the misfortunes. :-/

P.S.,
WNAX...one of the oldest and most listen to radio stations in the four state area...check the ratings again.
Look on the agricultural side Mike, there is not a station in SF that has even close the following as WNAX. Major reason why they do cover Jacks athletics is because they are heard state wide (roughly, north west river is a little harder).

OK_Jackrabbit
11-05-2005, 07:31 AM
Mike_H is just playing devil's advocate. That's useful here, as the D1 move is a long-term proposition and hasn't been done before around these parts. I honestly don't see the anti-SDSU thing in Mike's work. Just because someone is critical or doesn't agree with something doesn't mean they have an agenda to undermine the effort. Sometimes criticism is about fixing problems not just sniping for the heck of it.

There are people out there who want SDSU to fail, but I don't see Mike_H as one of them.

ballz
11-05-2005, 08:00 AM
Thanks for the arrogant eye roll. I so love those!

And to think you threw in a condescending sermon for free! I've really missed that. I had forgotten just how stupid I was. Thanks for the reminder!

Go State! ;D

LOL. Thats some good saracasm right there.

Jacks02
11-05-2005, 08:18 AM
Mike_H is just playing devil's advocate. That's useful here, as the D1 move is a long-term proposition and hasn't been done before around these parts. I honestly don't see the anti-SDSU thing in Mike's work. Just because someone is critical or doesn't agree with something doesn't mean they have an agenda to undermine the effort. Sometimes criticism is about fixing problems not just sniping for the heck of it.

There are people out there who want SDSU to fail, but I don't see Mike_H as one of them.

I gotta agree with OK on this one. I live in SF and listen to the show 3 or 4 times a week. While Mr. H definitely isn't a homer and wasn't a fan of the move to DI, the show has done a pretty decent job of having SDSU coaches and media on the program and promoting SDSU athletics in general. I think his tone has changed somewhat in the last year and a half, but for some reason he is always still surprised when we are competitive in games (UC Davis, GS). So I wouldn't say he is by any means anti-SDSU, I just think he is being critical and isn't necessarily a fan. If you listen to his show regularly he is critical of most things on his show, he generally plays the "devil's advocate" on topics.

So is Mike H a "fan" of SDSU? Maybe, maybe not, but I think its unfair to call him Anti-SDSU after the show has guests like Scotty Kwaz, Chris Solari, Nagy, Stig, Johnston on a regular basis. Its not his job to be a fan, its his job to give his opinions on sports. Thats why its called a talk show, and for the most part I think Craig & Mike has been a pretty good one.

Rabbitlivinginverm
11-05-2005, 09:36 AM
While I haven't had the chance to listen to Mike's show for nearly 6 months, I was, at the least, a weekly listener. He are my thoughts...Yes, they do have Jackrabbit coaches on the show; but not on their show. It seemed as though they were only on the Jackrabbit Report, we Jackrabbit fans pay for. And it seemed that there was always someone affiliated with USD calling in the Sportstalk w C&M (not sure who it was, someone in the athletic department) and Mike acts like the Jesus just called in to the show. I guess I'm probably--no, I am--biased, but I see Mike as anti-SDSU and that's just the way it is. Not everyone can be as lucky as us and see the world through yellow and blue glasses;)

jackmd
11-05-2005, 11:15 AM
I'll take the high road and say I don't like the show and that doesn't matter. They discuss topics that don't interest me right now, i.e. the Sioux Falls sports scene. There are pleny of opportunities for better sports programming and I suspect will see some of that soon enough.

As for Mike's presence here, he uses his name and speaks his opinions. This is commendable. He seems to waffle a bit when asked to explain his point and doesn't like to be contradicted, but then neither do many of us on this site.

This site has grown considerably over the last 2 years and for that I am glad. Without the move to DI none of these discussions take place. Change is good, progress is better. The media will appreciate that, some individuals more than others.

89rabbit
11-05-2005, 02:22 PM
Thanks for the arrogant eye roll. I so love those!

And to think you threw in a condescending sermon for free! I've really missed that. I had forgotten just how stupid I was. Thanks for the reminder!

Go State! ;D


Mike,

If you are going to "play dumb" I am going to call you on it. As for my efforts to enlighten you, I would never think of charging you for them, I think of them more as a public service and for the greater good. ;)

Have a nice weekend.

Go State! ;D