How fast is fast?

[JACKGUYII]

A lot is made of 40 times in football recruiting in both college and pro. This is an interesting story on that topic:

 http://minnesotapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=393870

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: How fast is fast?

If I'm not mistaken, when I was playing, Greg Niederauer ran the fastest 40 on the team and it was on the electic timer. The eletric timer worked with the runner having his finger on a sensor. The timer started with the release of the finger from the sensor. The timer stopped at the end of the 40 yards with a light sensor. Pretty hard to fool the sensor. The guy who set up the electronic timer said most people see a difference of 2 tenths of a second from hand held timer to electronic. I think Greg ran a 4.4 or 4.5 electronic if I remember correctly. He was that fast, too.

One thing that 100 to 40 yard conversion chart doesn't take into account is the guys like Greg who was about as fast as you could get from 0-50, but would be beaten by the longer legs in a 100 yard dash. I saw him run tons of 100 yards dashes in high school where he was ahead at the half way mark only to end up in 2nd or 3rd when the long legs caught up to him. For guys like me, it really didn't matter.

[silkamilkamonico]

Re: How fast is fast?

Great article and it's true.

Deion Sanders has the fastest 40 time at the combine ever at like 4.31. That's the only true measuring stick as far as I'm concerned because all of the athletes are running under the same conditions.

Not sure about the conversion though. It gives an idea, but I wouldn't say it's very accurate.

40 time measure acceleration more then flat out speed, because the distance is so short. How quick is someone off the line plays a big role in the time.

As far as speed goes in football, it's been evident over the years that some players just have outstanding game speed. For whatever the reason they continue to run average 40 numbers again and again, but they get out on the football field on game day and noone can catch them.

IMO, the NFL values speed far too much. Kyle Boller became a top 10 pick or whatever because he ran an incredible 40 time, and he could throw a football 50 yards from his speed. Hasn't exactly carried over to the games though.

What do I know about drafting players though? Just IMHO.

[silkamilkamonico]

Re: How fast is fast?

One thing that 100 to 40 yard conversion chart doesn't take into account is the guys like Greg who was about as fast as you could get from 0-50, but would be beaten by the longer legs in a 100 yard dash.  I saw him run tons of 100 yards dashes in high school where he was ahead at the half way mark only to end up in 2nd or 3rd when the long legs caught up to him.  For guys like me, it really didn't matter.

Good post. I need to learn how to type faster.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: How fast is fast?

As far as speed goes in football, it's been evident over the years that some players just have outstanding game speed.  For whatever the reason they continue to run average 40 numbers again and again, but they get out on the football field on game day and noone can catch them.

Excellent point. Coach Stig would probably agree with you 100%. In my opinion, quickness is 10 times more important than speed in football. Watch a guy jump rope and you'll have a better idea of his ability to move his feet on the football field than you'd ever get watching him run a 40 yard dash. For most of the players on the field, it's a battle of quick feet, not speed. Even the WR's need quickness as much as speed. See Steve Smith for example. All quickness.

[JH81]

Re: How fast is fast?

Excellent point.  Coach Stig would probably agree with you 100%.  In my opinion, quickness is 10 times more important than speed in football.  Watch a guy jump rope and you'll have a better idea of his ability to move his feet on the football field than you'd ever get watching him run a 40 yard dash.  For most of the players on the field, it's a battle of quick feet, not speed.  Even the WR's need quickness as much as speed.  See Steve Smith for example.  All quickness.

Great point. How many times a game does running 40+ yards factor in? It's those 10 yard (minus) battles that determine a majority of success on the field. There have been a number of guys at SDSU that could burn in the 40 but couldn't play a lick on the field. Yet, they were hyped because they ran a fast 40 time. Heck, I was as slow as they came in the 40, but it never affected my abilty to play the game.

[footballfan]

Re: How fast is fast?

I think I have been told that the difference between handheld and electronic is about .26 sec Electronic is much more accurate. Excellent article on 49 times. Quickness is much more important.....




Go Jacks !!!!!!

[HuskyJack]

Re: How fast is fast?

To say that an electronic timer is infallible is absolutely ridiculous- Which is why the NFL uses hand held times. Believe it or not there are actually trainers out there that teach (at a high price) players methods of fooling an electronic timer.

The second phase of this reply I would like to comment on speed vs. game speed. We all know that there are individuals that play much faster than they can run. However the current trend in the game is to find players with great speed, due to the fact that the mentality of the college game has changed. If you were to look at the number of spread offenses the jacks faced this past season you would understand that defensively it is extremely important to have players that can.... effectively drop into zones -at a high rate of speed- redirect -at a high rate of speed- pursue -at a high rate of speed- and close in on the ball -at a high rate of speed. A fast 40 and or 10 can definitely showcase the ability, but not neccessialry playing ability.

Which brings me to my final point. You can teach little Jimmy to do everything effectively on the football field. You can teach him to key the right keys, to know and understand certain aspects of the game that will make him a great player. However, if Jimmy cant get there, and is inferior speed wise to an opponent, you cant coach Jimmy to run faster. Jimmy is as inherently fast as he is going to be. You will loose games with inferior speed.

Which, in-turn means you loose your job.

[89rabbit]

Re: How fast is fast?

To say that an electronic timer is infallible is absolutely ridiculous- Which is why the NFL uses hand held times. Believe it or not there are actually trainers out there that teach (at a high price) players methods of fooling an electronic timer.

The second phase of this reply I would like to comment on speed vs. game speed. We all know that there are individuals that play much faster than they can run. However the current trend in the game is to find players with great speed, due to the fact that the mentality of the college game has changed. If you were to look at the number of spread offenses the jacks faced this past season you would understand that defensively it is extremely important to have players that can.... effectively drop into zones -at a high rate of speed-  redirect -at a high rate of speed- pursue -at a high rate of speed- and close in on the ball -at a high rate of speed. A fast 40 and or 10 can definitely showcase the ability, but not neccessialry playing ability.

Which brings me to my final point. You can teach little Jimmy to do everything effectively on the football field. You can teach him to key the right keys, to know and understand certain aspects of the game that will make him a great player. However, if Jimmy cant get there, and is inferior speed wise to an opponent, you cant coach Jimmy to run faster. Jimmy is as inherently fast as he is going to be. You will loose games with inferior speed.

Which, in-turn means you loose your job.

HuskyJack,

Thanks for posting and welcome to the board!


Go State! ;D

[JH81]

Re: How fast is fast?

Which brings me to my final point. You can teach little Jimmy to do everything effectively on the football field. You can teach him to key the right keys, to know and understand certain aspects of the game that will make him a great player. However, if Jimmy cant get there, and is inferior speed wise to an opponent, you cant coach Jimmy to run faster. Jimmy is as inherently fast as he is going to be. You will loose games with inferior speed.

Which, in-turn means you loose your job.

Devil's advocate...if we can't coach Jimmy to run faster why is so much time and money spent on speed training and explosiveness training, i.e. Acceleration Program type of training. I'll agree that you can't coach someone to cut .5 off his 40 time, but you can coach players to cut their 40 time enough that it can make a difference. Granted, the top skill players (receivers, DB's) are typically "naturally" fast, but others (LB's, RB's, TE's) can pick up speed thru training which often times makes a world of difference, from what I've seen anyway.

[RonRabbit]

Re: How fast is fast?

Proper training can help an athlete reach HIS or HER speed potential. Beyond that, its genetics. Some acceleration courses are pretty good in bringing out one's best in speed.

[mitchell]

Re: How fast is fast?

This article was on gojacks.com. It shows that at least two SDSU football
players are participating in track this year.

SDSU men win three relays at Cobber Open
MOORHEAD, Minn. -- South Dakota State runners captured three relay titles to highlight a successful day for the Jackrabbit men's indoor track and field team Saturday at the Cobber Open.

The Jackrabbits set two records on the day, including smashing a school record in the 4x200-meter relay. The team of Zach Wirth, JaRon Harris, Jordan Paula and Justin Horn combined for a time of 1 minute, 31.86 seconds to win the event and break the previous school record by six seconds.

Wirth also was part of an Olson Forum arena record in the shuttle hurdle relay, teaming with Nick Schanaman, Ryan Dump and Andrew Duitsman for a time of 31.60 seconds. Schanaman added an individual title in the 55-meter hurdles, clocking a winning time of 7.73 seconds.

SDSU's final relay victory came in the 4x800-meter relay, where two Jackrabbit teams were separated by .03 seconds. The team of Joe Roby, Nick Hibma, Matt Small and Josh Klawitter won the race in 8:42.65, while the quartet of Matt Heiser, Brad Heyne, Todd Vlieger and Adam Blankenfeld came in with a time of 8:42.68.

Heiser added an individual victory in the 1,000-meter run, while freshman Jared Bienlien contributed a pair of runner-up finishes in the distance events. Bienlien placed second in the mile run with a time of 4:30.85, and was second in the 3,000-meter run in 9:14.05.

Jackrabbit head coach Rod DeHaven competed in the 5,000-meter run, clocking a winning time of 15:10.57, more than a minute over his nearest competitor.

In the field events, Cameron Johnson posted the top finish by a Jackrabbit with a runner-up leap of 21 feet, 11 3/4 inches in the long jump.

The Jackrabbits return to action Feb. 4 with athletes competing at the Husker Invitational in Lincoln, Neb., and the MSU Invitational in Mankato, Min

[JackTwice]

Re: How fast is fast?

Actually that's three players. Harris, Paula and Horn. Horn is a reserve corner.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: How fast is fast?

To say that an electronic timer is infallible is absolutely ridiculous- Which is why the NFL uses hand held times. Believe it or not there are actually trainers out there that teach (at a high price) players methods of fooling an electronic timer.

The second phase of this reply I would like to comment on speed vs. game speed. We all know that there are individuals that play much faster than they can run. However the current trend in the game is to find players with great speed, due to the fact that the mentality of the college game has changed. If you were to look at the number of spread offenses the jacks faced this past season you would understand that defensively it is extremely important to have players that can.... effectively drop into zones -at a high rate of speed-  redirect -at a high rate of speed- pursue -at a high rate of speed- and close in on the ball -at a high rate of speed. A fast 40 and or 10 can definitely showcase the ability, but not neccessialry playing ability.

Which brings me to my final point. You can teach little Jimmy to do everything effectively on the football field. You can teach him to key the right keys, to know and understand certain aspects of the game that will make him a great player. However, if Jimmy cant get there, and is inferior speed wise to an opponent, you cant coach Jimmy to run faster. Jimmy is as inherently fast as he is going to be. You will loose games with inferior speed.

Which, in-turn means you loose your job.

Never said the electronic timers were infallible and it's relatively easy to trick one. However, the ability to have a high school coach say "I have 4.25 on my stop watch. What do you have? 4.5? Well, mine's faster so we'll go with mine." is lessoned with the electronic timer. However, a kid/coach who wants to lie about how fast he ran the 40 is going to lie no matter what happens. I was just pointing out that the Jacks used electronic timers when I was there.

Also, little Jimmy can be fast as hell, but if little Jimmy can't successfully read a pass read or a pulling guard he's going to look really slow standing in place as the game passes him by. You can't teach speed, but often times you can't teach football skills either. A player with ability in both are what we need.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: How fast is fast?

I should clarify. The fooling of the electronic timer has to do with the starting sensor and how you can double tap it to make your time faster. However, if you run the 40 with someone watching the starting sensor it's almost impossible to fool. Also, human error on the timer is largely taken out of the equation.